Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
imported post

First, thanks to everyone for the info on the stator change. I got the stator in and am now charging at 13.75 with all lights and accessories on and the enginge running at 3000 rpms.:clapper::clapper:

Now, Irebuilt the carbs, have the floats set at .30. I soaked each one, blew out every opening, passage ways, andtubes. The needle diaphrams are soft, pliable, and no tears, with the locating tabs in the correct places.I have noticedthat after the choke (enricher :cool:, see, I did learn something! ) is off, the bikedoes not have the giddyup and go my old Aspey had. It cruises and takes off great, but when I throttle up to, say, pass someone, I gotta downshift a couple of gears to go. If I use the choke, it seems to have a bitmore powerThere is no miss, no decel problems, idles nicely, just the lack of that quick spurt of power on heavy throttle. The carbs have been adjusted from rich to lean back to rich in 1/2 and 1/4 turns. If I understand these carbs, the needle diaphrams use vacuum to open them, thus enriching the mix for power at or close to WOT.Wheredoes the passageway for those start?Is there any other areas to look for?Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
82 Posts
imported post

Hi Wendell,

I am not sure about the 1200, but my GL1100 has an accelerator pump on one of the carbs. This adds extra fuel into the system in the transition from idle or cruise to hard acceleration. If the rubber diaphram is bad, acceleration will definitely be saggy and slow. Again, I'm not sure about the 1200, but if it has carbs, it should have an accelerator pump on one of the carbs. Hope this helps you out.

:byebye: wilddoug
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
82 Posts
imported post

Hi Wendell,

I am not sure about the 1200, but my GL1100 has an accelerator pump on one of the carbs. This adds extra fuel into the system in the transition from idle or cruise to hard acceleration. If the rubber diaphram is bad, acceleration will definitely be saggy and slow. Again, I'm not sure about the 1200, but if it has carbs, it should have an accelerator pump on one of the carbs. Hope this helps you out.

:byebye: wilddoug
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
82 Posts
imported post

Hi Wendell,

I am not sure about the 1200, but my GL1100 has an accelerator pump on one of the carbs. This adds extra fuel into the system in the transition from idle or cruise to hard acceleration. If the rubber diaphram is bad, acceleration will definitely be saggy and slow. Again, I'm not sure about the 1200, but if it has carbs, it should have an accelerator pump on one of the carbs. Hope this helps you out.

:byebye: wilddoug
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
82 Posts
imported post

Wendell,

Sorry about the 2 extra posts, computer kind of glitched on me.

:gunhead: wilddoug
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
imported post

The 1200's don't have an accelerator pump. I'm not happy with my carbs either. We'll see what others have to say.
 

·
Premium Member
93 Honda Aspencade, 112,000 + miles
Joined
·
162 Posts
imported post

Wendell, Have you synced the carbs after the rebuild. Its pretty easy on the 1200 and can make a big change in the idle as well as acceleration, at least it did on my bike. I would certainly recommend it.
 

·
Postpubescent member
Joined
·
36,382 Posts
imported post

Eagledriver wrote:
Wendell, Have you synced the carbs after the rebuild. Its pretty easy on the 1200 and can make a big change in the idle as well as acceleration, at least it did on my bike. I would certainly recommend it.
:waving::waving:Welcome to the Best Goldwing Site on the Internet Eagledriver!:waving::waving:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
imported post

Guess I shoulda mentioned that I did sync the carbs too. I did that after setting the pilot screws. It did helpwith the idle, but the higher throttle problem still persist. Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,148 Posts
imported post

The carbs on the GL1200's are almost bullet proof if maintained properly.. The fuel metering rod at the end of the diaphram has a critical tolerance and if the diaphram is not moving the piston up and down in the bore, additionl fuel will not feed the engine during loads.

It's critical that ALL those tiny little drill holes be clean and free flowing.. After soaking the carb parts, I always use a spray can of carb cleaner with the tube on the nozzle to insure free flow all the way thru.. There should be three tiny, tiny holes in the throttle bore that should be clean, includin the feed ports they emerge from.

Another area to look into is the fuel metering jet in the bowl.. It has an orifice 1/2 way down. It's between the half with holes and the half without holes.. If that orifice is plugged at all, fuel flow is inhibited. They gum up solid and are difficult to clean.

Lastly, inspect to be sure the vacuum hoses are back to their original locations and that the anti backfire valves are not burned on the mating surfaces or have little bubbles along the neoprene surfaces from heat.

If all these things are correct, and the float levels are set properly, performance is unhindered.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
imported post

Wendell wrote:
First, thanks to everyone for the info on the stator change. I got the stator in and am now charging at 13.75 with all lights and accessories on and the enginge running at 3000 rpms.:clapper::clapper:

Now, Irebuilt the carbs, have the floats set at .30. I soaked each one, blew out every opening, passage ways, andtubes. The needle diaphrams are soft, pliable, and no tears, with the locating tabs in the correct places.I have noticedthat after the choke (enricher :cool:, see, I did learn something! ) is off, the bikedoes not have the giddyup and go my old Aspey had. It cruises and takes off great, but when I throttle up to, say, pass someone, I gotta downshift a couple of gears to go. If I use the choke, it seems to have a bitmore powerThere is no miss, no decel problems, idles nicely, just the lack of that quick spurt of power on heavy throttle. The carbs have been adjusted from rich to lean back to rich in 1/2 and 1/4 turns. If I understand these carbs, the needle diaphrams use vacuum to open them, thus enriching the mix for power at or close to WOT.Wheredoes the passageway for those start?Is there any other areas to look for?Thanks!

Wendell, your problem could be almost anything. Probably the place to startare the easy things..

Open the hand throttle & VISUALLY VERIFY the throttle plates in the carbs are opening ALL THE WAY (a mis adjusted cable or linkage can really effect performance)..

Open one or more carb fuel drains & verify a good stream of fuel flowing out for AT LEAST 30 SECONDS (don't short-cut the time or you learn nothing)..

Make sure the ign control box is getting both a 4/5th gear signal & that the box is getting a vacuum signal from the #4 carb..

Carb sync shouldn't be a problem at higher throttle opening as it has little effect there (unless grossly out of whack)..

When you setthe float heights did you do that with the needle springs compressed? If so your float heights are way low. (the floats need to be set with the needle just lightly touching the seat,NO spring compression)..

The enrichener has little to no effect on mixture once the throttle opening is off the idle circuit so not much can be learned there at WOT..

LOOK FOR A PLUGGED OR PARTIALLY PLUGGED AIR FILTER (this is a big point of low performance)..

While this is hard to verify, be SURE the slides are opening as the throttle is opened at speed, if the slides (or even one) doesn't pull up as you accelerate at speed it really hinders the power & passing ability (will lower top speed also).. If the bike won't go over 80-90 mph suspect carb slide problems.. The vacuum port that feeds those slides is in the bottom of the slide barrel itself. If the carbs areremoved you can reach in with your finger & place it over that vacuum hole then lift the slide, if all is well the slide should only lift a little then the pressure in the upper chamber should stop the slide's travel, then lift with your finger beside the hole, it should then lift all the way up easily..

Other than that maybe do a full compression test, verify the spark advance is operating (use a timing light on the crank hub or timing hole)..

Verify a good fuel flow for at least 30 seconds, make sure the fuel pump is working, make sure you are getting ign advance, make sure the exhaust isn't plugged or restricted, verify full power to the ign coils ( a problem area on older Wings), make sure the cam belts are not off a tooth or more, make sure you set the float height correctly, make sure you are getting WOT..



The carbs have been adjusted from rich to lean back to rich in 1/2 and 1/4 turns. If I understand these carbs, the needle diaphrams use vacuum to open them, thus enriching the mix for power at or close to WOT.Wheredoes the passageway for those start?Is there any other areas to look for?Thanks!
Adjusting the carbs (pilot needles) only effects lower throttle openings 1/4 throttle & lower & has some but very little effect on 1/2 throttle & above.. The main carb control at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle is main metering needle to needle jet size (needle, step taper, & needle jet diameter).. The main fuel control at 3/4 to WOT is the main jet itself. There are very few internal passages associated with the main jet circuit as it pulls it's fuel directly from the float bowl.. There is- an air jet, emulsion holes in the side of the main jet holder, & the jet diameter itself (not much there).. Float (fuel) height does have a rather large effect on the main jet fuel flow & tuning though, so be sure that is correct..

Any questions on what you have or find just post back..


Twisty
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
imported post

Thanks fellas! There is definitely more to these carbs than I realized. I am going to print all of the above and I plan on pulling the carbs off again tomorrow evening. I'm hoping that it is something simple (meaning it is probably me).:plike missing some goo. This bike sat for 2 1/2 years with stale gas. The float needles were actually stuck inside of the seat and I had to use needle nose pliers to get them out! I will be going even slower on this inspection! I'll post what I find. Thanks again!

I meant to ask, where is the best place to get that little deal to use when timing this bike at the timing hole? I am 100% sure that the belts are on exactly on the nose, but would like to see what it is timing at. Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
imported post

Wendell wrote:
Thanks fellas! There is definitely more to these carbs than I realized. I am going to print all of the above and I plan on pulling the carbs off again tomorrow evening. I'm hoping that it is something simple (meaning it is probably me).:plike missing some goo. This bike sat for 2 1/2 years with stale gas. The float needles were actually stuck inside of the seat and I had to use needle nose pliers to get them out! I will be going even slower on this inspection! I'll post what I find. Thanks again!

I meant to ask, where is the best place to get that little deal to use when timing this bike at the timing hole? I am 100% sure that the belts are on exactly on the nose, but would like to see what it is timing at. Thanks!
Wendell, do the (Open one or more carb fuel drains & verify a good stream of fuel flowing out for AT LEAST 30 SECONDS (don't short-cut the time or you learn nothing) FIRST, before removing the carbs..

If the flow is low on any of the carbs, suspect a plugged screen in the top of the needle seat in any of the carbs that are low on flow.. There is a very fine screen up inside the top of the carb needle seats on all those carbs & given the fact those needles were stuck in the seats there is a very good chance that those screens being plugged is your problem..

Twisty
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
imported post

Thanks Twisty!

I did replace the float valves and seats with the screenswhich came with the rebuild seats when I rebuilt the carbs and had the tank cleaned and replaced the fuel filter. I did the fuel flow test for 30 seconds (each on the # 1 and #4 carbs) as you suggested and have excellent fuel flow. The floats were set just touching the float needle pin. I plan on checking the slide needle diaphrams again. I just remembered that when I re-installed them, I had a time keeping them in place. I'm beginning to wonderif maybe they rolled slightly out of the groove when I put thetops back on.I know that would keep the vacuum from building on higher throttle. I'll checkthem before going any further. I'm going to check the vac line going to the ignition box too. When I put the carbs back in, there were two vac lines thatI could not remember where they had been. I looked at the Clymer book and it gave me the locations. One was to the ignition box which I connected tothe vac port located on the side of the #4 carb just above the float bowl. The other went onto the #4 intake tube vacuum port andfeeds vacuum tothe anti-afterburn and slow air cut-off valves. I'll post what I find later. Thanks again!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
imported post

Wendell wrote:
Thanks Twisty!

I did replace the float valves and seats with the screenswhich came with the rebuild seats when I rebuilt the carbs and had the tank cleaned and replaced the fuel filter. I did the fuel flow test for 30 seconds (each on the # 1 and #4 carbs) as you suggested and have excellent fuel flow. The floats were set just touching the float needle pin. I plan on checking the slide needle diaphrams again. I just remembered that when I re-installed them, I had a time keeping them in place. I'm beginning to wonderif maybe they rolled slightly out of the groove when I put thetops back on.I know that would keep the vacuum from building on higher throttle. I'll checkthem before going any further. I'm going to check the vac line going to the ignition box too. When I put the carbs back in, there were two vac lines thatI could not remember where they had been. I looked at the Clymer book and it gave me the locations. One was to the ignition box which I connected tothe vac port located on the side of the #4 carb just above the float bowl. The other went onto the #4 intake tube vacuum port andfeeds vacuum tothe anti-afterburn and slow air cut-off valves. I'll post what I find later. Thanks again!
Wendell, one thing that helps to reinstall those slide diaphragms without a problem is to place each in the sun for an hour or two (that drys the hydrocarbons from the rubber & shrinks them slightly),, then let them cool for a while & place them in plastic baggies (that's to protect the food that is in the freezer from picking up the fuel smell), then place them in the freezer for an hour or so (that stiffens them up & shrinks them even more).. Doing the above they will usually go back in with no problems.. Kind of slide the top cover around in circleson top of the diaphragm while seating the cover as that tends to work the edge of the rubber into the groove of the carb while the cover seats correctly on top of it..

Twisty
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
imported post

Twisty, thanks for that suggestion. I got the #2 carb apart and cleared all of the passages out. Funny thing is it took me til just a few minutes ago to figure the slide vacuum out. If I am seeing this correctly, the diaphram gets it vac source from the hole on the very bottom of the diaphram cup. Knowing that low pressure moves in and out of the carb body depending on the throttle position, that would make sense. Am I on the correct path? It looks like I still had some gunk in the main meter jet.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
imported post

Wendell wrote:
If I am seeing this correctly, the diaphram gets it vac source from the hole on the very bottom of the diaphram cup. Knowing that low pressure moves in and out of the carb body depending on the throttle position, that would make sense. Am I on the correct path? It looks like I still had some gunk in the main meter jet.
Wendell, yes, that's correct.. That hole in the bottom of the slide is the vacuum path for the upper chamber above the slide diaphragm.. As the throttle plate opens & the engine RPM increases the vacuum increases across the bottom of the slide & that vacuum travels up through the hole & lifts the slide.

Twisty
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
imported post

Thanks again Twisty! I was never a good carb man even as an auto mechanic. I would just as soon pull an engine and rebuild it than have to do tune-ups. If I stand there and think through it, I can get it eventually. But an immediate solution is another thing. Kinda like trying to think through a false lean problem on a GM car and getting lost trying to remember how the O2 sensor works into the picture! :pWell, gotta get my beauty sleep!:cooldevil::cooldevil:Thanks again!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
imported post

Well I got some good news!:):):)Checked all the vac lines and recleaned the carbs again, re-syned themand now this monster will rock:shock:!!! When I took off I said "Holy Sh**"!! That's what I am talkin' about!!:cool::cool:Twisty, I think part of it was the port vac going to the ignition module being blocked. I do not remember blowing that one out, but when I did, quite a bit o' garbage came out! I double checked my float levels and recleaned every hole I could find. I even figured out a neat way to check the operation of the slides! I took a 1hp shop vac and placed the hose into the intake side of the carb. This simulated the engine vacuum and should allow those rascals to work! With the vac on I could slowly opened the throttle plate and watched to see if the slide raised. All four worked perfectly! You definitely would not want to do this if the carbs still had gas or a strong odor of gas in them. But since I had cleaned them out, I had no problems. Thanks to Twisty and all the others who responded both on the board and off! You fellas are the best!!:cooldj:

Now we are offto ride!!:11black::11black::11black::11black::11black::11black::11black::11black::11black::11black::11black::11black:
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top