Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
imported post

I have been having a devil of a problem with solenoids for my '83 GL1100. First of all let me say I have replaced the starter with a new stronger one, and have replaced the battery with a heavy duty model. I have installed 2 of the new "blade" type solenoids and one old "dog bone" type on my GL. They all work initially but soon fail. I believe this has to do with current draw problems and am considering going with the Ford F150 Victory Lap GPR solenoid replacement option (Amazon $13 today.)





The posts I have seen talk about how to wire this new solenoid but do not address the stator/electrical system fuse issue. So my question is, does anyone out there know of a better way to replace the Honda solenoid with a more robust version. And if the Ford solenoid option is the way to go how do you get around the stator/electrical system fuse issue specifically?



A simple but effective fix for this issue would be greatly appreciated and would benefit many of us Goldwingers. Thanks for you help... :?
 

Attachments

·
Piled Higher and Deeper
Joined
·
4,513 Posts
imported post

Welcome to the forum!

Are any of these OEM or at least an original type?? Not sure what your symptoms are, but my OEM has been working for 15 years now (and probably longer).

What brand/type are you using?
 

·
Premium Member
1985 GL1200 Limited Edition
Joined
·
3,485 Posts
imported post

I think the selinoid plug wiring is the same as the Gl1200 so I'd just cut the 2 red wires coming from the regulator and install/solder a 30amp inline fuse holder from those 2 red wires to the "Hot" side of the starter selinoid, install the Ford selinoid, and ride her like a Big Wheel!!:cool::coollep::coollep:





BTW.... Welcome to the Site!!:cool:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
imported post

Thanks guys for your quick responses. The two blade type solenoids were OEM type. I think the problem I am having has to do with the fact that I have installed a new starter AND a stronger output battery. Therefore there is more current draw going through the solenoid. Thus the failures.
I think roscoepc is on to something. So to reiterate, I should wire the Ford solenoid as previously stated in other posts. Take the two red wires from the "pigtail" plug, wire in a 30amp fuse and connect to the hot side of the starter solenoid?

I wish there was a "plug and play" option for those of us having current draw solenoid issues in that we could find a replacement solenoid that we could just plug into, wire the battery and starter and it would work. I've seen peeps suggest using lawnmower solenoids, etc. The Ford option does seem to solve the problem but gets a little complicated.
Here is a photo of how one member wired the Ford solenoid...http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/attachment.php?id=8105 Thanks again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
imported post

Ok guys I'm finally at my wits end. To recap I have been having a devil of a problem with solenoids for my '83 GL1100. First of all let me say I have replaced the starter with a new stronger one, and have replaced the battery. I have installed 2 of the new "blade" type solenoids and one old "dog bone" type specifically for my GL. They all work initially but soon fail. I believe this has to do with current draw problems.

I have installed the Ford F150 Victory Lap GPR solenoid replacement option and hooked up the fuse holder as roscoepc has suggested. Thanks for you suggestion. Everything worked as it should for a day or two, as it has with the previous solenoids I have installed.

But then I go to start my GW in the morning when its colder here in Denver (air temp 40 degrees in a garage) and it turns over but does not start. The I try again and it turns over a little. Then I try again and it turns over even less. Then again and the solenoid just clicks. And that's the end of it. It will not catch again. But if I use the old screwdriver and jump the electrodes on the solenoid the starter will work fine and it will start up fine. I'm getting tired of having to jump it like this and I know it is not good for the starter or the solenoid. Popping the clutch on a hill also works, so the stator and rectifier are working fine.

sandiegobrass I'm very happy your OEM solenoid has worked for you for 15 years, but this is not the case with some of us GWs out here.

Assume that all the solenoids have been for my specific bike (with the exception of the HD Ford solenoid), assume I have replaced the starter with a new one for MY bike and it works. Assume that the battery is plenty strong. Assume that when the starter button is pushed on there is 12 v power to the solenoid. Assume that everything is properly grounded. Assume that all electrical works as it should now that I've installed the new 30 amp blade type fuse holder.

What the heck could it possibly be? HELP...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,046 Posts
imported post

Next time it gets bogged down move the kill switch to the off position and try cranking it. If the spark advance gets jammed open and the spark is way to early it can slow cranking. Flooding from a leaky float valve can also cause this so turn off the petcock net time you park her.

Given that you get good cranking with the by-pass and your solenoid is good I'd replace all the cables. You can buy bulk cable and ends at the auto parts store, but you might have to ream out the terminals, at least that's what I had to do.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,790 Posts
imported post

i would try to keep mc on a charger overnite to have best shot at starting everyday,really sounds like that's part of the problem,also when u start it in morning making sure that between the time you turn key on and starting is minimal,once u turn key on the headlight and lights draw down a charged battery quickly
to see how much difference it makes pull the headlight fuse once and try to start it normally,you'll be surprised
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
722 Posts
imported post

The current to the starter does not flow through any fuses.

From the symptoms you describe the battery is at fault. Put it on a slow charge, 2 Amps, overnight. High charge rates are very hard on batteries. Then take it to a parts store or battery store and have them load test it. Taking a voltage reading at the battery terminals tells nothing about the true condition of any battery.

Remove, clean and tighten all the grounds. The ground at the triangular motor mount on the left side is most important as that is the main ground from the battery, but all grounds must be good.

The heavy duty starter should not draw substantially more than an OEM starter. Note that I said draw. Electrical devices use only the current (amperes) that they want, thus draw current. A current source such as a battery can not push current in to a device. The Ford solenoid is designed to start a large six cylinder or eight cylinder engine and as such passes up to 250 amps when starting the engine. I believe the 'Wing starter draws about 100 amps.

Again, I would suspect the battery.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
imported post

Thanks lyleapgmcfor your reply. The battery was purchased from Batteries Plus. After the replacement of the first failed solenoid I pulled the new battery and had it load tested by them. It was fine. I also trickle charge the battery on a regular basis. A low battery would not explain why the starter works and the engine starts when jumped across the terminals.



fghI will try leaving the petcock off overnight to see if a flooding issue could be part of the problem. Although it will start by jumping it. Let's explore the spark advance concept... When the solenoid begins to "seize" up the engine kind of sounds like it is getting stuck. And finally after a few tries the solenoid stops closing and it just clicks. I can get the engine to start by jumping the terminals but it takes a few extra cranks to get it going. How can I check out if the spark advance is working properly and could be the issue?



I'm going to try to uninstall and reinstall the Ford solenoid to see if I can get it to work normal, for at least a short time. Like I said, all solenoids work initially and fade to just a click eventually. I find it hard to believe that the Ford solenoid could be toast. I should be able to get it to work again somehow.



Thanks guys for thinking outsidethe box. I'll keep trying things. :shock:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,287 Posts
imported post

Sounds to me like a bad ground.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,965 Posts
imported post

sounds like my 81 was doing when i pick it up it was hydro lock due to a leaking carb

flooding a cyc. and so when it get hard to turn over pull the plugs and see if any gas spits out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,046 Posts
imported post

NakedGW wrote:
How can I check out if the spark advance is working properly and could be the issue?

That requires a special sight glass to be inserted where the timing mark cap is. Its on the left rear of the crankcase and looks like a large plug (1" or so) that requires a large flat blade screw driver to remove. Unfortunately this special sight glass is near impossible to come by. Also since you have an 83 that has an electronic ignition it'll be forever before you need it again.



There are two spark advancers on your bike, a vacuum and a mechanical. They are both behind a cover that you will find on the upper rear of the engine if you follow the vacuum line from the #3 carb. You can test the vacuuum by plugging the port on the carb and applying about 1" of vacuum to the line. If its OK the RPM's will rise. Testing the mechanical requires removal of the cover and turning the advancer by hand to see that it moves and then the springs return it. Or if you can find the sight glass you plug the vacuum line and then watch the timing marks with a timing light as you increase the RPMs. If its OK the timing will advance as the RPMs go up. DO NOT try to run the engine with out the timing hole covered. If you do it'll sling out about a quart in less than a minute and you'll spending the next 15 minutes or more cleaning up.
 

·
Bob Cassel
Joined
·
386 Posts
imported post

I traced out the wiring diagram, there should be four service size wires at the solenoid: Yellow/Red, Green/Red, Red/White and Red.

The R/W are tied together inside the solenoid,and obtain 12V positive from the battery cable. They are protected by a 30 amp fuse. The R/W goes to the regulator and ties to 2 red wires. The R goes to the ignition switch and provides battery power to the switch.

The Y/R provides 12 volt positive to the actuating coil of the solenoid, the G/R provides ground through the clutch switch or neutral switch.

So, the Y/R and the G/R are your starter motor activator wires. The R/W and R just provide power to make the rest of the bike run.

You should be able to tie the R/W and R together down stream of a 30 amp fuse and bypass they whole solenoid, it just acts as a buss.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,013 Posts
imported post

Ok folks, just an observation here, but, it cannot be hydro locking because it will start when the solenoid is jumped, its not low battery voltage, because it starts fine when the solenoid is jumped. The problem is between the start button and the solenoid. If you have not already, it would probably pay to take off the switch controls and clean them to make sure that the switch is making good contact. Over time many owners have a tendency to just spray WD-40 into the switch housing, but this will eventually lead to things getting gummed up inside.
With a digital test meter see what the voltage is at the starter when you use the switch and when you jump the solenoid. Also check the voltage at the solenoid battery cable and then the starter cable when using the switch. Make sure that your cable ends are secure to the cables. I have seen but do not know how to wire it, on older models Chevy farm trucks and such, you know the big block 366 and 454 HD motors where a second "FORD" style solenoid was wired in to help get the needed voltage/amps to the starter.
What were your initial symptoms before replacing all that you did?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,106 Posts
imported post

to be totally honest any 12volt solenoid will work you dont need a honda one that costs 50 or 60 bucks i just went to the tractor supply store and picked up a solenoid for a kubota riding lawn mower for 15bucks

it works yeah it dont look right with the cover off but who cares
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
imported post

I checked that out today by using an extra wire with two gator clips and grounded the solenoid to the frame. No change. Solenoid still just clicks and does not engage the starter.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
imported post

bcassel "The Y/R provides 12 volt positive to the actuating coil of the solenoid, the G/R provides ground through the clutch switch or neutral switch."

bcassel you might be on to something. Recently my neutral light is on even while my bike is in gear. I've don't believe I couldn't start my engine before unless in neutral but maybe. Anyone know if on an '83 Interstate the bike must be in neutral in order to start? If so, how can I get the neutral light off when in neutral?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
imported post

bcassel - You seem to be most knowledgeable about the workings of the GL solenoid. Attached is a photo (basicallymy configuration) of the Ford solenoid I've got installed. If I attach aground wire to the bottom most terminal (shown in photo with nothing attached). And put an alligator clip on the actuator terminal (the top most terminal), then touch the battery with the other end of the alligator clip wire to the battery; that should bybass the starter switch andthe solenoid should activate? Correct? This is just a test to see if power and ground to the solenoid will activate and if the solenoid is working properly. Any thoughts?
 

Attachments

·
Junior Grue
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
imported post

NakedGW wrote:
If I attach aground wire to the bottom most terminal (shown in photo with nothing attached). And put an alligator clip on the actuator terminal (the top most terminal), then touch the battery with the other end of the alligator clip wire to the battery; that should bybass the starter switch andthe solenoid should activate? Correct? This is just a test to see if power and ground to the solenoid will activate and if the solenoid is working properly. Any thoughts?
If the unused terminal has an I or i next to it do not connect it to ground as you'll just burn wires.

The solenoid uses the mounting bolts for a ground and the I terminal to bypass the ballast resistors on some systems providing full voltage to the coils during cranking for a better spark.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top