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I recently purchased a very nice (looking) '86 Aspencade. It has 86000 miles on it and all the goodies are still working fine,except the engine.
The engine is only running on #1 and #3 cylinders. Believe me this hinders blazing get away starts.
Here is what I have done so far:
CHECKED COMPRESSION: All cylinders are on or within 2 lbs. of 175 PSI. This tells me all the rings and valves are in rather good condition. Valve timing must be on the mark also.
INSTALLED NEW OEM PLUGS: I did this even though it appeared the previous owner had done the same thing.
CHECKED FOR SPARK: I checked spark both visually (strong blue on each cylinder) and with a timing light.
(I might say here that this is how I found out where the problem was, by pulling off #1 plug wire with engine running, the engine stalled. Same thing occurred when I pulled the #3 plug wire. When I went over to the left bank, pulling neither #2 or #4 had any effect on the running.) Right away I think spark or coil or something electrical, but here is the kicker. One coil fires #1 and #2, and the second coil fires #3 and #4. So if #1 is running okay, #2 SHOULD be. Same applies to #3 and #4. Right?
NEXT: I fire some ether down into the airbox, directing the spray to the left side cylinders. Immediately the revs come up and the engine smooths out like a GW should sound. Hmmm...fuel delivery problem, I think.
CHECK THE FUEL PUMP: Strong steady stream of gasoline. BTW: I had siphoned the old gas and replaced it with fresh.
DRAIN FLOAT BOWLS: Drained each float bowl into a cup. Each delivered approximately the the same level of fuel. The fuel looked clear and free of sediment. Next I did what I really did not want to do.
REMOVED THE CARBURETORS: (Not as bad a task as I anticipated using a Chilton Manual) Bought 4 rebuild kits off eBay. Checked the maze of air and fuel lines for potential leaks on the bottom side of the carb cluster. All the slides looked to be in perfect condition. The needle on #3 had a signifcant amount of crusting on it. and the float, float needle and seat appeared to have been recently replaced (Looked nice and white while other floats were stained yellow). To my dismay, all the jets seemed open and flowing free. I was hoping to find something obvious. So I soaked all the jets and small parts in carb cleaner, blew them out with air and put the new parts in and buttoned up the 4 carbs, set the pilot jets at the suggested 2 turns out from seat starting point.
REINSTALLED THE CARBS: Using new o rings on the 4 secondary air supply tubes and new carb intake tube o rings I put things back together.
IT NOW RUNS EXACTLY AS IT DID BEFORE!!!!! Arrrgggggg!!! :(
Any one out there had anything problem similar? Any further suggestions short of taking it to the dealer??
 

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Hey df see if you can email "Jason" to look at this post He can probably figure it out , i'm going crazy trying to?!
 

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Just in from a night club. HArdly worth it these days, they finish at 1am. :(

If you have a spark on all 4 cylinders and fuel is getting to them and 2 still won't fire, then it sounds like you have an air leak somewhere. Are the rubber O rings fitted where the manifolds join the heads on the affected cylinders? Also check the rubbers that connect the carbs to the manifolds, these often develop cracks and suck in air.
Also check for water in the cylinders. Even though the compression is excellent, you might have a weeping head gasket (enough to let some water in but not affect compression, yet) and the water mixing with the petrol won't allow the cylinders to run.
 

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That's an excellent thought Jason. There is a bit of vapor out the exhaust (both sides though) I just atributed it to frigid weather.
Gives me something to look into.
BTW: The intakes got new o rings and the rubber boots from the tubes to the carbs passed a vidual, but of course that don't mean there is no leaks.
Thanks
Dave
 

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Is it possible that #2 and #4 carbs are so far out of synch that they aren't drawing enough air to pull fuel in?

Myself, I think I would try switching sides with the coils and seeing if the problem reversed. You can get a static spark in open atmosphere but under compression the the spark could be shortedthrough a bad coil. Ether would ease the spark plugs job and this may be why it ran better with the ether.

I'm anxious to hear your findings.

Good luck, Vic
 

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Is it possible to swap carbs from left to right bank ?etc.If you spray around the intake pipes with either and check for the engine reving up.I used to use a squirt oil can on automotive applications to check for leaky intake gaskets etc.You can see the oil gettin sucked in.I work as a mechanic everyday on mining equipment and when you fiinally find it...someone will say"is that all it was?Good luck and hope this helps..Trapper
 

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If you had a head gasket leak allowing enough water in to shut off to cylinders completely I'd expect a lot of water in the exhaust system on that side. Also should show some fudge in the oil. You probably will show some vapor on the dead side, compressing the air and then releasing the pressure into the exhaust as your engine is doing on the dead side will produce water vapor it there's any humidity in the air due to the sudden cooling caused by decompression.

I'd try closing the gaps on the #2 & #4 plugs a good bit, if the spark is weak sometimes this will allow the plugs to fire. If it makes a difference the ignition system is the candidate. If it doesn't, it's back to the carbs. How is the depth of fuel in the left side carb bowlscompared to the right side? One thing that comes to mind is the possibility of some crud in some of the air passages in the two carbs. If the bike sat a long time on the side stand, there might be more residue in the left side carbs. I'm not sure, my '86 doesn't have carbs but won't the diagonally opposite carbs interchange?
 

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Just shooting in the dark - check the timing belt on that side to see if it's not 180 degrees out.
 

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My money is on Marco. These can be out 180 even when they appear to be lined up. maybe someone replaced the belts and didnt get it right. I did the same with mine and it did run but not well.
 

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Hey guys thanks for helping DF out !

The kicker as you noticed is one cylinder on each coil is not working, that's why it might be an air or carb problem, but hey I have trouble trying to figure what I'll eat for dinner!
 

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Hey, thanks for all the great responses.
First I have pretty much ruled out coil problems. And the water leak theory looked good, but there is no evidence of water beads on the plugs or when holding my hand over the exhaust while the engine is running. I've had cars with leaking head gaskets and they blow a lot of water out the exhaust.
I am going to explore the timing belt thing because I really don't know where else to look. I try to imagine in my mind where the valves would be on the no running side if the belt was off 180 degrees on the left side. I think it will be easier just taking off the cover and checking. If that is not the problem, I don't know where to look next. I keep feeling that i'm overlooking something that should be obvious. Or it could be a small obsure thing.
I'll keep you all informed.
 

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I would double check the coils or reverse them before you tear it apart because I reread your post and you wrote that 1 coil fires 1+2 and the other fires 3+4.

I haven't checked first hand on myWing , but, according to my Clymer manual one coil fires 1+3 and the other fires 2+4. ( Clymer Honda manual, 1st edition, 1986, page 183 under ignition coil), but, could be a misprint.

I wonder if someone installed the spark plug wires incorrectly. It would still run, but, very poorly.

Let us know as soon as you get this mystery solved, please, the anticipation is killing me. LOL

Vic
 

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Goldwinger1984 wrote:
I would double check the coils or reverse them before you tear it apart because I reread your post and you wrote that 1 coil fires 1+2 and the other fires 3+4.

I haven't checked first hand on my Wing , but, according to my Clymer manual one coil fires 1+3 and the other fires 2+4. ( Clymer Honda manual, 1st edition, 1986, page 183 under ignition coil), but, could be a misprint.

I wonder if someone installed the spark plug wires incorrectly. It would still run, but, very poorly.

Vic
I thought the exact same thing when I read it, because I was misfiring on one cylinder on my 83, but I didn't want to be the one to say it first. :)

It would run, but the timing would be so far off that it would have the same effect as a belt 180 degrees out. You may still get spark, but there would be little or no fuel/air in the cylinder, or the piston would be on its intake stroke, so no fire.

Yes, please do let us know!

Jack
 

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Should be able to do a rough check on valve timing byturning the engine and seeing if the plug fires when both valves are closed. Removing the plug leads on three cylinders, hooking up a loose plug on one cylinder and cranking with a thumb over the sparkplug hole should show whether the compression stroke is where the plug is firing. Since these engines take their spark timing off the cams, they don't fire on the top of the exhaust stroke like wasted spark engines.
 

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When I changed the belts on mine it ran poorly and I checked the left side a bunch of times. The problem was on the right side. I still don't understand how it was wrong but saw a post from Randakk and that was the problem.

Bill
 

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I always thought the 4 cylinder GW motor was a wasted spark motor. How do you not get a wasted spark with only 2 coils?

If you sprayed some Ether into the intake and the motor revved up, sure sounds like a fuel delivery issue, and not electrical or timing.

Also, are you positice you have your cylinder numbers right?

Raymond
 

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Raymond, it is a wasted spark ignition system. One spark fires on or beforeTDC in one cylinder and simultaneously the other spark is wasted on theexhaust stroke in the opposite cylinder.

I sure hope he gets this thing running right soon, because the suspense is killing me.

An engine has to run if it has compression, fuel, air and spark at the right time.

Vic
 

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My thoughts on the wasted spark was in response to exavid's post. Iknew it did, only made sense.

Since he bought the bike this way, maybe the PO can shed some light on what happened to make this occur. Was it right after a timing belt change, etc.. Sure sounds like the carbs are not delivering fuel properly, if at all, to that bank for some reason.

But then again, I've had my carb demons too....

Raymond
 

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Mea culpa, please excuse stupidity!:(:(

Of course the engine uses wasted spark. Numbn*ts, (yours truly) for some reason looked at the cam position sensor on his bike and thought, 'Oh, the spark is triggered from the cam, since cam operates at half engine speed no wasted spark." This person also knew one coil fired two cylinders too. Apparently a senile brain doesn't find any problem melding incompatible facts into erroneous conclusions. Good thing Shep didn't come here, he'd have to run away again in shame.:gunhead:
 
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