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While reading past posts related to fuel system problems, I found several people who were against using alcohol blended gasoline. Here in the central USA, many gas stations offer Ethanol (90% gasoline, 10% ethol alcohol). Most of the time it is the same price as regular grade gas. It has the same octaine raiting as mid-grade. And best of all, it reduces our demand for foreign oil. And last, I haven't heard any farmers shouting "death to America" while unloading their grain at the ethanol processing plant!!
I see another post asking what local gas prices are, so I thought I would throw this in.

I use it in my 1998 Dodge Dakota. Runs the same, gets the same milage.
 

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Two things come to mind, one it's hydroscopic so it can promote corrosion, second the stuff has less BTUs by weight or volume so your mileage goes down. One other problem is the stuff makes you go blind when you drink it.
 

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exavid wrote:
Two things come to mind, one it's hydroscopic so it can promote corrosion, second the stuff has less BTUs by weight or volume so your mileage goes down. One other problem is the stuff makes you go blind when you drink it.
Yes and dont forget if your running a newer OBD2 system the Engien module can and will eventually go haywire .........
 

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If the fuel system is "hardened" no problems, ethanol has been known to eat some of the earlier fuel system sealers. (i.e. gaskets o-rings etc.)
 

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Hey "exavid" No wonder this web site been getting blurry lately, been making "Margaritas with it !:baffled:
 

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wingdawg101 wrote:
Hey "exavid" No wonder this web site been getting blurry lately, been making "Margaritas with it !:baffled:
I know a couple guys who run on methanol, but their cars run on gasoline.
 

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exavid wrote:
wingdawg101 wrote:
Hey "exavid" No wonder this web site been getting blurry lately, been making "Margaritas with it !:baffled:
I know a couple guys who run on methanol, but their cars run on gasoline.
I used to run on J. Beam but had to quit do to health reasons!:weightlifter:

Oopp :doh:never mind we are still talking bike fuel.....................
 

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First the term is "hygroscopic" with a G and yep if it is not in a sealed container it can absorb water from the atmosphere and then it has the potential to cause a problem. Keep it in a sealed container, keep your tank topped and you shouldnt have a problem I have been running 10% gasohol in all my ground vehicles for years.At 10% I have not seen enough of a difference in fuel consumption to justify not using it in my motors.

Alcohols have more bound oxygen in the fuel molecule. necessitating some alteration to the fuel mixture to get optimum performance It will run in a stock engine but performance will be reduced. That excess Oxygen will cause the O2 sensor to false read but I have not read anywhere where that fact alone causes long term problems to the O2 sensor.

Sure it can make you go blind but not because it is Ethanol. Drinking 100% gasoline is not going to do you any good either it will outright kill you. Fuel ethanol is intentionally denatured(additives added to make it taste bad to keep people from drinking it). What does that have to do with whether it is an appropriate fuel or not. Fuel grade ethanol is made with the same basic process that "Drink grade" ethanol is produced up to the point that it is denatured and the fact that the straight ethanol is many times more potent than anything you will find on the shelf at the liquor store, i am not sure why that should keep someone from using it as a fuel though.

E-85 is becoming available in my area finally. I have been running it in my mowers. I have a cage that is not flex fuel but has some other unique properties that should allow it to function with it. I am conducting some simple experiments running different ratios of e-85 in it. I also have a stainless steel covered pot in my shop with E-85 in it. In that I have placed some generic O-rings, emery polished aluminum bar stock and Ni/clad aircraft washers. Coming up on 2 weeks and so far the O-ring still looks like an O-ring(no swelling or cracking) and the metal parts show no signs of corrosion.

On the tank of 70% E-85 in the car I have had the check engine light come on and the later in the trip go back out. My car is one of the hybrids, its system is able to support combustion with 1/2 the normal qty of fuel a mixture of I think around 24:1 instead of 14:1 in cruise mode. This particular car is supposed to have a plastic fuel tank as well.

I dont recommend anyone doing the same but I have also read enough about what the differences are between a flex fuel vehicle and a non-flex fuel to be willing to personally take the risk. But I aam a tinkerer, an experimenter and I fly around in an airplane I built myself. If somebody says it cant be done, well sometimes I have to go out and do it just to prove that it can.

I believe that people get confused between methanol and ethanol. They are both alcohols yes. Ethanol you can drink, Methanol will make you go blind. Methanol is a whole lot more corrosive than Ethanol could ever dream of being. And the "sample" pictures I have seen of ate up engines in scare papers have usually been caused by "Methanol" aka wood alcohol rather than "Ethanol" or grain alcohol.

For other information you can check out http://www.e85fuel.com.

I would not contemplate putting straight E-85 in my 85 limited because of its age though. It is getting back in the time frame where too many other component variables could cause problems.

bob
 

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Well, I like everyone's opinoin, But revinger really answered my question. Thanks!
 

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I guess I should have explicitly stated that I run the normal 10% ethanol based gasohol in my 85 wing wheneve it is available as well. I just dont put anything stronger in it.

bob
 

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That's a very interesting read Bob, thanks.
 

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johnmac wrote:
While reading past posts related to fuel system problems, I found several people who were against using alcohol blended gasoline. Here in the central USA, many gas stations offer Ethanol (90% gasoline, 10% ethol alcohol). Most of the time it is the same price as regular grade gas. It has the same octaine raiting as mid-grade. And best of all, it reduces our demand for foreign oil. And last, I haven't heard any farmers shouting "death to America" while unloading their grain at the ethanol processing plant!!
I see another post asking what local gas prices are, so I thought I would throw this in.

I use it in my 1998 Dodge Dakota. Runs the same, gets the same milage.
johnmac, there isn't any one stand out reason a person couldn't run 10% ethanol in the older Wings. There are some smaller side issues that should be considered though.

The first & foremost is ethanol's ability to absorb water. When a 10% ethanol blend is contaminated with over .5% water, the ethanol and water mixture will separate from the gasoline and fall to the bottom of the fuel tank. This can cause runability problems, corrosion in the aluminum carb parts, fuel pump failures, & general fuel system related problems. If the bike would be stored with ethanol then the water absorption can very easily cause severe fuel system corrosion & carb problems during storage.

Your fuel mileage will drop slightly, probably is the 1-2% range for most older carbureted vehicles. That is hard to detect as that 1-2% is well within the normal mileage variance of normal riding.

There is less BTU's per gallon with the ethanol but there is also a variance between regular gasoline's so not a real big deal.

In most 96 & older vehicles there could be a slight stumble on acceleration due to either the water content or slightly weaker flame front. (The more out of tune the bike or the higher the concentration of ethanol the more pronounced the stumble).

The use of ethanol in an older vehicle that hasn't used any ethanol or tank cleaners in a while can lead to the ethanol dissolving tank varnish or other crud & washing it through the fuel filter & carb jets. That could cause some long term operational problems. (I say could not a definite will).

I can't speak to the motorcycle problem but was involved with ethanol testing on older cars & trucks. It was pretty well determined that using ethanol laced gasoline wouldn't cause harm as long as it burned out in a reasonable time & the concentration is at or below 10%.

There lies the biggest problem with ethanol in gasoline-- It doesn't stay mixed with the base gasoline very good. When you buy a tank of 10% ethanol you really don't know for sure it is ONLY 10%. It could very well have been in a 10% concentration when put in the storage tanks but what is it at the time you purchase if it has been sitting a while. Or worse yet,, HOW MUCH water are you getting in the ethanol mix that was picked up in the storage tank? Most storage tanks contain water in the bottom (or at least did before the ethanol was pumped in). How much water are you getting per gallon??.

Would I personally use an ethanol blend in my older bike? Not if I have an alternative. Would it hurt short term? Probably not if burned out promptly & not stored with that mix in the tank & carbs.

Twisty
 

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exavid wrote:
Two things come to mind, one it's hydroscopic so it can promote corrosion, second the stuff has less BTUs by weight or volume so your mileage goes down. One other problem is the stuff makes you go blind when you drink it.
actually it is methanol (wood alcohol) that will make you go blind (methanol has one carbon and and an alcohol group, whereas ethanol (grain alcohol) has two carbons and it will only make you act stupid. However the gasoline part will cause pneumonitis which is very bad

do agree though, alcohol in fuels do mix with moisture which can then settle out to the bottom of your tank and lead corrosion when left for any period of time
 

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rcmatt007 wrot
do agree though, alcohol in fuels do mix with moisture which can then settle out to the bottom of your tank and lead corrosion when left for any period of time
Just means you gotta ride your bike more . I have put 6,000 on my 85ltd since last september, 6,000 on a 77 gl1000 between last august and when I sold it a couple months ago, 3 or 4 thousand on my wifes kz440 since last summer. And not very many miles on my car. Just another reason to give to ones significant other, "honey, I have to go out and ride my wing a couple hundred miles, be back this evening." :grinner:

bob
 

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rcmatt007 wrote:
exavid wrote:
Two things come to mind, one it's hydroscopic so it can promote corrosion, second the stuff has less BTUs by weight or volume so your mileage goes down. One other problem is the stuff makes you go blind when you drink it.
actually it is methanol (wood alcohol) that will make you go blind (methanol has one carbon and and an alcohol group, whereas ethanol (grain alcohol) has two carbons and it will only make you act stupid. However the gasoline part will cause pneumonitis which is very bad

do agree though, alcohol in fuels do mix with moisture which can then settle out to the bottom of your tank and lead corrosion when left for any period of time
Yep got it bassakwards, old age is hell.
 
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