[toolman]

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Well, I am at the point of removing the engine and rebuild the starter clutch assy for my 84 1200A. All attempts to loosen it up have failed. I rebuilt the starter, which spins well on the bench, tried push starting, block of wood and a hammer (lightly on the case), removed belt covers and manually turned engine. Starter lines up good and splines engage straight up. Chain moves freely in opposite direction of cranking and is locked in th direction of cranking. So with the belt covers off, it is time to concede and drop the engine this week and see what makes this clutch tick, or in my case NOT tick.
Does anyone have any experience with this procedure that might make it go smoothly?? Also I figure I might as well do some other PM with the motor out. Any recommedations on what might require some attention?
Thanks for your replys.

Toolman

 

[FitzAl]

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It's not too difficult, the hard part is taking the engine out and puting it back. No special tools that I can remember. Pull the genny assembly off and you will see the starter clutch. The rollers and springs sit at the back of it. Clean the roller housing and the crankshaft where the rollers sit.

It might not be a bad idea to consider replacing the stator. As you know, they do give trouble and this would be an ideal time to replace it if you have any doubts about it's condition.

 

[toolman]

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Thanks Alan, I will take a look at the stator for sure. I was told that it was replaced with a heavy duty unit because the bike has quite a few lights, but of course was never supplied with any paperwork to support that. As far as the engine removal is concerned, the Clymer book I have recommends removing the carbs. Is that an absolute requirement? I do not want to remove unless necessary for fear of messing them up.
Thanks

 

[Jason]

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You can leave the carbs in the bike. Most people just unbolt the carbs at the manifolds where they bolt to the cylinder heads and the carbs stay put when you drop the engine.

 

[toolman]

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Thanks Jason. That is a big timesaver as I am having problems getting the air filter box out as I think the screws threads are stripped.

Toolman

 

[toolman]

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Well, here is the latest in this continuing saga. Got the engine out last night and opened up the back end to inspect. I was amazed. The inside of the case is absolutely clean!! No sludge buildup anywhere except alittle inside the rotor housing. For a 84 I would have thought there would be some buildup. Maybe the previous owner did do the MMO thing once in awhile. Rollers and springs seemed to move freely and no flat spots. I think I will change them out anyway just to know they are good. Rotor locks solid when load is applied in direction of cranking. I was also surprised to find how easily the motor did come out. Just took my time and bagged and labeled everything as it came off. I left the carbs in and it worked OK, not sure if I would do it that way again though, I will wait and see once the motor is back in. I hope it is not a starter rebuild gone bad that ends up being the problem. Oh well goes with the territory.

NEED HELP on this one!! Where is the plug for the gear shift position sensor? I can follow it only so far into the frame and then it is lost in the sphagetti of wires. There is no obvious connection on the motor as it disappears into the block. So here I sit with this motor that I can not put on the bench because one wire is holding to the frame. Any pointers would be appeciated.
Stay tuned

Toolman

 

[DJ]

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Have a good look at the crankshaft where the rollers grip and make sure there is no wear.The springs often go weak and stop the rolers gripping properly. Far as I recall, the conector block for the neutral light is under the false tank.

 

[toolman]

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Thanks for the tips. I was debating whether to replace rollers but now I think I will along with the chain sprocket assy where they grab onto to. Did'nt think the springs were weak but why take the chance.

Toolman

 

[englishted]

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DJ is right, connector is under the dummy tank and buried near the ignition coils.

 

[toolman]

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Latest update on this brain teaser. The problem is definitely in the starter motor. I have disassembled the stater clutch and it is in perfect shape. Rollers move freely and without binding. Activation is instant when turning in the direction of cranking and release when power is removed. I put the starter in and hit it with a battery and while it engaged the starter only has enough torque to take the slack out of the chain and then the motor spins. I called the guy who rebuilt it and he is willing to stand behind it but I think replacing the starter is the best solution. Lesson here is that even though the starter spins on the bench it does not mean it is solid. Check, double check , and triple check before pulling the motor. This problem showed all the signs of a stuck starter clutch. I am glad I pulled the engine and opened it up to see how it all works. I found the alternator has been upgraded and the drive clutch is in good shape along with the pulse generator. So when I get this "broken wing" back in flying shape I am confident I have a solid machine for a long time to come.
I just wish if this had to happen, it would have waited for the weather to cool off so I have gotten a few more miles in.

Toolman

 

[GWNorman]

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If the starter motor itselfspins under load, then you will probably find that either the splined shaft inside the motor or the 3 small geared cogs that the shaft spins (these in turn operate the splined part that goes into the cog inside the engine) are worn out.

 

[toolman]

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Thanks Guru,
I did take the starter back to the rebuilder, he checked it by bearing down on the output shaft of the starter with a block or wood and he said it is fine, he could not stall it out. Not very precise in my mind. I am taking it back along with the splined sprocket for a more definitive test. I believe the engine shaft to be excellent. the starter clutch engages immediately and there is no backlash or "slop" on the stator shaft to indicate problems farther down stream of the clutch. The rebuilder said he will examine the gear drive in the starter to make sure it is not worn out or damaged. I do not know if he replaced any thing when he rebuilt the unit. I did confirm that the transmission was in neutral when I attempted cranking with a battery. I can turn the engine easily to simulate cranking at the stator shaft. A tear down of the starter gear head is next. I do not want to open the case until I know the starter and clutch are operating in spec.

Toolman

 

[toolman]

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Final note on this one. The gear set in the starter had a pin fall out on rebuild and when the motor saw load the gears would separate and the motor would run indicating the starter clutch is the issue. Not the case!! Starter spins just fine, now all I have to do is put the engine back in and get her running just in time to put away for the winter. Oh well, a good experience just the same. Pulling the motor is not to hard, just taking all the "stuff" off to get at it.
Thanks again for all the help

Toolman