[2Dahorizon]

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greetings, have read enough, i sense i have found what i need. i bought this bike to replace a stolen car, now i've found that it is going to be a [email protected]#$h to get parts for. I was surprised because i SURE do see a lot of them on the road:shock:.



OK, here's the story/symtoms, this bike will not start consistently(in a nutshell). in the morning or after it has been sitting for more than an hour it will turn over freely. sometimes it will start quickly(seconds) sometimes i am out there until the battery just won't turn the starter. the pattern seems to have something to do with if the bike has warmed up or not. I've been talked into a new battery ($80.+), there was a slight difference in the running and the same day i put the battery in i wound up sitting on the roadside for about 30 minutes before the bike decided to start(it shut off at a light). After a string of several days when i would go out and and attempt to start the bike( only to drain the battery), i went out one day determined, and as soon as the bike sounded like it wanted to start i goosed it, really hard and did get the bike start. it kept trying to shut off, i wouldn't let it. i took the turnpike route to the dealer and left it:X. they are telling me that i need a starter ($582.+).



my question is this, if that starter was spinning so hard everytime i pushed the button, how can it be bad? and not being a mechanic i still wonder, doesn't this sound more like a FIRE issue!!??? instead of a starter issue?? i came here hoping to counter the old 'baffle em with bullsh#t' syndrome.



would someone in here please put me on track as to where to put my little bit of (remaining) money. i've only had this bike a month(not a lot of riding):gunhead:

 

[drknobs]

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I'm no mechanic,but ya gotta realize this bike is 30 years old, and depending on how much care it was given over the years, there's probably a ton of crud on the most of the electrical connections that could be the cause of your problems.

I think I'd start by cleaning the contacts on the start/kill switch.

Check the dogbone fuse and its connections (or simply replace with a modern type fuse).

On my '79 project bike I had to replace the starter brushes due to intermittant starting issues; found them for less than $20 at a local auto shop.Took underan hour to change them out and reinstall the starter.

As far as your local stealer and his price to install a new starter? If I had the time I'd ride out to Philly and rebuild yours for only $375! :shock:

Good luck!

 

[2Dahorizon]

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Thanks for responding, i want to get into this bike but first i need to get it to where i can just use ti for now. The p.o. changed the points to electronics and changed the fuses to the more modern ones(don't know what they are called).



bikes runs fine, the problem is getting it to start when i need it to. it seems to love the highway, 80mph @4400, straight and true.

 

[Hatchetman]

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Starters are not that much money, I bought one from Stocker starters in California for $125 plus shipping. We have a for sale section here on the forum where parts are available as well. your carbs sound like they are punked up with crap. Pour a half can of sea foam into your fuel tank & run that bike so it can help clean out your fuel system. Your starter might only need a brush kit which is around $35 bucks.
You have a good bike there, Dont give up on it because they run well for years due to the quality that was built into them.
When your bike is just sitting, it helps to have a battery tender on it just to keep max power in that battery for starting.
Keep us posted & ask lots of questions, we will steer you right where others might not!
Welcome to the forum!!!!!

 

[2Dahorizon]

imported post

thank you, i am going to go and pick it up today, eat the diag fee($104.+), see if i can find some 'seafoam' , give it a run maybe up north a few, bring it back and start shopping for a starter or kit.



i saw somewhere in here that you need to "be careful" when removing the starter, is there some source here for a step-by step on this project?



thanks again for the response.

 

[2Dahorizon]

imported post

thank you, i am going to go and pick it up today, eat the diag fee($104.+), see if i can find some 'seafoam' , give it a run maybe up north a few, bring it back and start shopping for a starter or kit.



i saw somewhere in here that you need to "be careful" when removing the starter, is there some source here for a step-by step on this project?



thanks again for the response.

 

[2Dahorizon]

imported post

thank you, i am going to go and pick it up today, eat the diag fee($104.+), see if i can find some 'seafoam' , give it a run maybe up north a few, bring it back and start shopping for a starter or kit.



i saw somewhere in here that you need to "be careful" when removing the starter, is there some source here for a step-by step on this project?



thanks again for the response.

 

[plainmech]

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not for sure if starter included but gsmacclean has how to's on ref. and faq, also check bikers workshop. if starter needs work find local starter/ alternator shop can be done cheap. like hatchet said don't get discouraged you have lots of help here and it can be worked out, frustrating yes, impossible no. good luck :action::waving:

 

[RB]

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Only real issues in removing the starter is DO NOT turn the cable stud you'll break the connection inside and then the start is toast..Hold the bottom nut firmly and loosen the top nut and cable end..remove the two mounting bolts..take the shifter off and then wiggle the starter back, tilt and wiggle it up and out. Some need to remove or loosen the engine and header some don't. It is a tight fit.

The bike should be on the side stand so the gear doesn't fall back into the engine when you remove the starter.

BUT if it turns the engine over it's not the starter you said you've had it turning many times..note you shouldn't turn it with the starter for more than a few seconds each time a let it rest in between or you will burn it up.

 

[ding dong]

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2Dahorizon wrote:

my question is this, if that starter was spinning so hard everytime i pushed the button, how can it be bad? and not being a mechanic i still wonder, doesn't this sound more like a FIRE issue!!??? instead of a starter issue?? i came here hoping to counter the old 'baffle em with bullsh#t' syndrome.



would someone in here please put me on track as to where to put my little bit of (remaining) money. i've only had this bike a month(not a lot of riding):gunhead:

If your starter is turning the engine freely then it is not bad. Don't waste anymore money on the starter. You either have an electrical problem or a carb problem and those problems could be anywhere. You need more diagnosis. Do you have a good spark? Is the timing spot on? Are your points set correctly? Are you getting fuel to the plugs? What is the compression? You need to provide more info for us.

 

[2Dahorizon]

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Greetings folks, thanks for all the replys. my goal was to add this last night but i couldn't keep my eyes open, loong day.

UPDATE: went yesterday and retrieved my bike from dealer, lot of walking, true to form it started right up. the second is command in shop says he is an old bike preferer and swears my problem is in the starter.
i rode bike about about 10 miles to fuel stop closest to turnpike entrance. i put the fuel and 'sea foam' into tank while bike was running but had forgot to open fuel valve, that cost me about an hour(the bike shut off and would not re-start). I did notice that even after the rest of motor was cool, starter was to hot to touch, since i was at a 'wawa' i used a bunch of ice pushed in around the starter to cool it, bike started.
i went up on the turnpike and put a solid 170miles on it without stopping. over half of the trip, amp meter showed bike discharging. somewhere on return side it flipped to charging, this has happened a couple of times before. bike ran fine, actually as good or better than i have noticed before(sea foam??). most of trip was done between 60 and 90mph, no knock, no hesitation, no smoke etc., that's all i know to look for.
the shop guy suggested i pull the starter and try to 'clean the copper first' before i buy another one.

and that's it.

to 'hatchetman' and 'plainmech': thanks for the source info.
to 'RB': all good points, i will use them, and the overheat thing may explain why the ice let the bike start maybe?
to 'dingdong' i don't have a lot of tools anymore, that's why the shop got a hundred bucks from me so easy, but this i can say, i expect to get bike tuned up and carbs syncronised. one time while i was trying to get bike to start, a friend pulled plugs and said i wasn't getting any spark. we walked away for about 30 - 45 minutes, came back and bike started right up. can't tell you about timing, only how it runs. ingnition was switched to electronic by 'P.O.'. what i said for timing applies to "fuel to plugs" and compression.

and there you have it, i'm off to pull a starter (if i have the right tools) since now the sun is coming up.
everybody either enjoy your day or i hope you had a good one.

 

[Hatchetman]

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Glad to hear that your winning! Keep us posted!!

 

[2Dahorizon]

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Well, seems like my starter works( brushes low but useable).
KUDOs to 'Mr MagicFingers' over in FAQ, his 'how to' on dis-assembling the starter was dead-on!! everything was as it should be.

SOOO, i came back in here and started poking around some more, found another FAQ(actually a couple) from 'ARKnapp'.
Looks like 'dingdong' is right on point and i have to find the tools and space to strip this thing down and go through every frickin connection. OH WELL.

Any body willin to share some insight on meter selections, order of checking, or at least some ideas for a quick outdoor lean-to / shed that i can tear this thing apart
in/under, in a slanted parking space?? Looks like this is gonna be some days.

one thing i didn't think to mention earlier, this bike has the 'dim to bright but never out' neutral light syndrome.

And, the relay hanging next to the battery(KUDOS to M'fingers) didn't start clicking until after i cleaned the starter, go figure.

 

[2Dahorizon]

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Well, it seems i can call the starting problem just about cornered. I ordered the brushes from cresent and installed them sunday, bike has started A LOT more easily(and often lol). So now i am looking for something else to fine-tune in order to get this machine smoothed out and truly reliable. Bike did something sunday on the test run that it NEVER did with me. I had been out riding, merging from one highway to another, came off ramp gave it a good twist and headed for the left lane of new road, bike backfired a few times back-to-back then lost ALL fire. Forunately, it did not sieze up, so i coasted to the shoulder.
I thought bike was done(starter would not turn). So, i pushed it off of i-95(1 mile plus) then made a couple calls.
One of my buds suggested that maybe starter problem was still around, sure enough, it's now about an hour later, don't you know the bike started???!!!! go figure. So i went out yesterday and PURPOSELY made a few stops and shut the bike down. The bike only left me sitting once for about thirty/forty minutes, the adventure continues.

 

[highcountry]

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I don't know anything about the dyna electronic units, but someone in here might have run into a problem with them getting hot and not working, you said that you didn't have spark when it was hot and yet it started after it cooled down. Dodge and Ford had that problem with their electronic units. Good luck. Dana

 

[2Dahorizon]

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thanks Highcountry

 

[ding dong]

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The Dyna ignition has been known to fail intermittently as your symptoms suggest. Dyna will test it for free and if defective charge you $60. for replacement

One other problem that often occurs is the mounting plate that carries the Dyna modules is a tad thinner than the ridge that holds the two mounting screws. This causes a bad ground connection when the screws are tightened down. I had to put star lock washers under the screws to get a good ground for the modules. Luck!

 

[ChasW]

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definetly sounds like you have your problem narrowed down to a spark issue