[mjpliv]

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(Copied from another topic - seems to have gotten lost in the crowd)

I am hoping that the "nasty nine" are potential problems and not pending ones. If my stator ('84 Aspencade 80,000 KM) passes the continuity test does this indicate that there is a good chance that my bike received an upgrade of some sort or am I living on borrowed time?


Also, the drive shaft and final drive pinion were just replaced prior to buying the bike. Other than Moly additives to the final drive oil, are there any other suggestions how to protect the gears/bearings in light of the built in lubrication flaws?

 

[Renegade]

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Additives are not on my hit parade for anything.. I do not believe they work and the manufacturer does not recommend them. New Wings are not coming off the assembly line with any additives. However, I also believe they won't hurt anything but your wallet.

That being said, all I do is take the final drive out every two years or so, clean, inspect and reassemble it and change the lubricant. If you overfill the housing, the lube will just flow out the vent on top until it reaches it's own level. None of the bikes I've been servicing since 1985 have ever had a final drive failure under this maintenance procedure. Some are still on the road with well over 100k miles.

All parts wear due to normal use, and seals can become brittle with age, so a good visual inspection will prevent any failures down the road. It's worth the time and effort to prevent a problem far from home just by doing a walk around inspection before each ride.. Hope this helps..

 

[Goldwinger1984]

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Very well stated Renegade, excellent maintenance advice.

I have never seen or heard of a failed GL1200 final drive that was always kept full of standard80/90 W hypoid lubricant.

Regarding the stator, I know of several GL1200 owners who are still using the original stator reliably. Just keep the integrity of all electical connections solid and try not to drive with an overly discharged battery because this makes the alternator work very hard and will show up any flaws in the electrical connectors very quickly.

Vic

 

[Dave Campbell]

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mjpliv wrote:

If my stator ('84 Aspencade 80,000 KM) passes the continuity test does this indicate that there is a good chance that my bike received an upgrade of some sort or am I living on borrowed time?


drive shaft and final drive pinion were just replaced prior to buying the bike. Other than Moly additives to the final drive oil, are there any other suggestions how to protect the gears/bearings in light of the built in lubrication flaws?

1.) Continuity check tells nothing except whether the stator winding(s) is/are burned completely in two, it will not indicate a marginal or "partially shorted" winding. Voltage readings with voltmeter are slightly better than useless. Only way to check it reliably is with inductance meter or oscilloscope. Ive found over the years that criteria for (early) stator failure are:

a.) > 40,000 miles (64400 Km) b.) operating in humid areas (all but SW U.S.) c.) dirty motor oil d.) engine overheating

Ive talked with GL owners in Florida and S.W. that neither have stator nor wiring problems at 60,000 mi. Just depends on your particular case.

There was no "upgrade stator" that was a lie Honda spread to cover their tracks when this all "hit the fan" They stuck the original owner with the labor bill (the expensive part) and generously agreed to warrant the stator. The nonsense about an improved stator was a "feel good" measure to make you think they solved the problem.

DIFFERENTIAL: The oil level is too low. Raise the level. moly cant hurt but it cant make up for insufficient oil level.

 

[Renegade]

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Thank you for a very nice compliment Goldwinger84... You echoe my centiments quite clearly about the stator.. My 86 Aspy still has the original stator and checks out perfect. I don't repair these bikes in large volume, but the ones I do maintain, have not had the stator problem.. I prefer the GL1200's because I understand them better than the 15's & 18's... It's just a preference that's all. I have always found that the OEM standards have worked best for me with advice fromowners and other Wing riderspeppered in.

I acquired my ASE license way back in the 60's from Lincoln Tech in Washington D.C. (I believe it's now ASME, but not sure) (I'm too old to remember), and it was emphasized back then that the OEM specs were concidered the best foundation for any manufactured vehicle. I know there are bugs in every piece of machinery, and as long as they are maintained, will last at least as long as the projected life time of service specified by the manufacturer. Who better to listen to than the ones who designed &built it???

I own & fly a Piper Cherokee 180 built in 1967. It looks and performs as well as the day it rolled off the assembly line hangar. However, over the years, I've had to deal with AD's which are factory & FAA changes, upgrades and fixes for the aircraft to keep it safe and airworthy. No problem,, Nothing is perfect and it keeps me flying.. Point is, the plane is very old and still flying... Like our older Wings, we've got to do things to keep them on the road safely.

Keep up the good avice Goldwinger84.. I truly enjoy your input... Thanks.. Renegade

 

[Heffo]

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A mechanic friend told me a few years ago that using engine flush in bike engines was bad news for stators. He reckoned that the solvent in the flush breaks down the varnish that the stators coils are baked in when they are being made.

 

[Dave Campbell]

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Heffo wrote:

A mechanic friend told me a few years ago that using engine flush in bike engines was bad news for stators. He reckoned that the solvent in the flush breaks down the varnish that the stators coils are baked in when they are being made.

I'd asked a similar question to a local company that does motor rewinds (industrial/commercial) and decided to test their information. Turns out the information they gave me was utterly false. I personally tested a GL1200 stator and the wire theyre made of to heat up to 550*F and solvent exposure, nothing happened. Tried battery acid, nothing happened. Didnt try gasoline (DUH! :gunhead

Oddly enough, one varnish manufacturer lists gasoline as a varnish thinner. Oh goody...

There are many varnishes that come dissolved in petro solvents (Xylene mainly) so in theory, its possibile for the solvent to attack it, but varnish is know for chemical resistance once applied, so its an application question.

This is a chemical question far beyond a mechanics opinion. Ive asked foradvice from chemists and folk that make varnish and motor wire andwill post what I get. Among China, Germany and a US Govt chem engineer, we should get an answer. If not, Ill jangle a giant wire mfgrs engineering dept.

Especially since Ive tested it, I doubt an occasional exposure to petro solvent (oil flush products often have toluene) on a cold stator can make a difference. Yeah, maybe soaking a stator in hot solvent might do it but I wouldnt try it due to explosion hazard.

Ive done motor flushmany times with no ill effect. Once the varnish is hardened, its tough to dissolve, then the solvent must also get through the enamel on the wire.

But, lets see what the chemists say./

 

[Goldwinger1984]

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Renegade, that's what this wonderful site is all about in my opinion. Folks helping other folks to keep their Wings running as reliably as possible at the least expense possible while having fun sharing with one another.

Vic

P.S. I'd love to see a pic of that Cherokee if you have one kicking around. Send it to [email protected] I just want to see if that's the same plane my brother used to take me up in when he was doing his flight training. I was so thrilled at looking down at the toy people and carson the ground. LOL

 

[Renegade]

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GW 84...I'm flying Sunday morning to Chatham, MA... I'll bring my digi-cam and sanp one for you... :bat:

 

[wingnut]

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Heffo wrote:

A mechanic friend told me a few years ago that using engine flush in bike engines was bad news for stators. He reckoned that the solvent in the flush breaks down the varnish that the stators coils are baked in when they are being made.

A motor rewinding shop is just 50 feet from where I work and the owner, Patis one of those old-timers near to retiring age, so he's got plenty of experience. I asked him about this last night. It's a good point, one I had never even thought about when flushing the engine of my GL1100 years ago. He just laughed and said the small amount of solvent involved in flushingwouldn't do any harm at all, so I'd be inclined to take Pat's word for it as I've known him all my life.
I've seen many burnt out windings that he's pulled and the varnish is usually still intact even with the wiring toasted. As a matter of interest, it's plain old Ronseal he uses and he's been doing it this way for years (30 guys working for him at one time) on huge industrial motors as well as smaller ones. They pour on the varnish and bake it in a big gas oven.

 

[FitzAl]

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Well old Pat the winders word is good enough for me as well, nice old codger altogether. I'm surprised he's lived so long, how many time did ya blow him up or booby trap his workshop this year Steve?? His triple bypass is holding out well! :shock:

 

[wexy]

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He hasnt blown him up YET ,,But wait and see what happens if steve catches him stealing his post ..:goofygrin::goofygrin:

 

[englishted]

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wexman wrote:

He hasnt blown him up YET ,,But wait and see what happens if steve catches him stealing his post ..:goofygrin::goofygrin:

Sounds like an interesting story. Is it a secret between all you Irish guys or can you share it with us? :cheeky1:

 

[Guest]

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englishted wrote:

wexman wrote:

He hasnt blown him up YET ,,But wait and see what happens if steve catches him stealing his post ..:goofygrin::goofygrin:

Sounds like an interesting story. Is it a secret between all you Irish guys or can you share it with us? :cheeky1:

Hey englishted, :waving:And with me, :baffled: I dont even know what they are talking about. :whip: Is this a Honda recall.? :stumped:

:leprechaun: :18red: :leprechaun:

 

[manx black cat]

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I see Redwing has a full set of teeth:cheeky1::cheeky1::cheeky1::cheeky1::cheeky1::jumper::skipping::skipping::skipping::skipping:.

 

[exavid]

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mjpliv - You're on borrowed time, and so is everything, if thestator is keeping the battery charged up and the electrics work okay, why sweat it? Ride it! Ditto for the final drive, check the oil level periodically and forget it. There are a lot of these bikes that have gone nearly forever with original equipment. I looked at two well used final drives at a nearby bike shop, one came off a ratty looking 1200 with over 150,000 miles. It didn't look like the bike got much maintenance in its later life, but the final looked okay.

Remember reading these posts tend to give a slanted view of the bike's reliability, we are all concerned with problems and such so that's mostly what you will read. Not too many of us are posting about how many miles we get with no problems at all. My old 1200 just ran a good 5500 miles in the past nine months with no problems. Rear end oil is just where it was when I first checked it. It isn't noisy or leaking.

REDWING's full set of choppers might be plates! :goofygrin:

 

[mjpliv]

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exavid wrote:

mjpliv - You're on borrowed time, and so is everything, if thestator is keeping the battery charged up and the electrics work okay, why sweat it? Ride it! Ditto for the final drive, check the oil level periodically and forget it.

Thats what I was looking for - good, pragmatic advice. Thanks Exavid!

If it ain't broke - don't fix it!

 

[Dave Campbell]

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wingnut wrote:

A motor rewinding shop is just 50 feet from where I work and the owner, Patis one of those old-timers near to retiring age, so he's got plenty of experience.

Steve, can you ask him what would happen if the windings were wrapped too tightly? Would they pinch and short then overheat if the engine heat rose too high? That would account for internal failure (under the varnish). Come to think of it, the ones ive seen have damage spread spherically from a single point, with no damage to the varnish elsewhere except where the oil has laid.

 

[Goldwinger1984]

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wingnut, would you please ask your friend Pat if he's ever come across a source for a cagedneedle bearingto replace the bronze bushing(s) inthe GL1200 Gold Wing starter. It would be great to get rid of the troublesome bushings and replacethem with quality needle bearings if I could find some.

Vic

 

[wingnut]

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Dave Campbell,
I asked Pat about this. He said the tighter the winding the better. I've shown him toasted Wing (1100 & 1200) stators before and he reckons they are well made and should be able to handle the load for which they were designed. He thinks that other parts of the system must be to blame for the burnouts, but most of us always suspected that anyway.

Vic,
I'll need inner and outer diameters for the bushes (haven't got a 1200 starter to hand) and also the depth. Pat reckons bushes are probably still a better bet for starter armatures, apparently less drag andless chance ofthe shaft wobbling over time with bushes. But he will check it out for me if I give him the specs.