Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
618 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
imported post

This weekend I took my bike in for scheduled maintenance to get that rascal ready for this riding season. My 08 GL calls for service at 8000 mi, so I called the dealership where I purchased the bike and asked how much this service cost. To my utter surprise, labor was going to be a little over $200 bucks with a final cost of around $300 including parts and labor. The service calls for a check of all fluids, oil and filter change, safety inspection, etc. I had been quoted a price for this service previously by this same dealer and the price was a little over $100. They denied having raised their prices.

Well, I called another dealership and asked the price for the same service...$126 plus tax. Needless to say, I took my bike there.

Now, I know that much of what they did I am capable of doing, but I am not a motorcycle mechanic and I just felt better having them look over the bike. I asked the dealer where I had the service doneif they knew why the other dealer wanted to charge me so much. The tech said that they probably were going to inspect the steering head bearings which, she said, was a pretty involved job taking several hours. She asked me ifI had anywobble or looseness in the front end and of course I don't. It drives straight, true and smoooooooth. So, shesaid that if I wanted to spend the money they'd check the bearings, but that it was not necessary if I wasn't having any problems even though Hondarecommends that the steering head bearing be checked at 8000 mi. My final bill was a little over $150 (b/c I wanted the synthetic blend Honda oil - less clunking).

After all of this, the question really is when is it prudent to check your steering head bearings? I don't want to let something go that might need attention.



Sorry for the long explanation...



Thanks,

DeDubya :18white:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
imported post

Good question and nice to have the details as well. I have an 07 with 19000 on it and have not checked the head bearings. I do have a slight wobble but with the tires having 19000 miles on them itwould be normal to have the wobble.



Kit do you have any comments on the above?



I will be removing the covers to install wiring for an air horn and this might be done at the same time.



Longboater,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
510 Posts
imported post

Not sure how relevent this is but I have just installed a new set of 'all balls' tapered bearings. I did this as I was doing work on the forks installing progressive springs and new fork oil. I initially had a very slight tremor in the steering at 40mph when I took my hands of the handlebars. Not a major problem but I thought the bearings would cure it anyway according to reports on other forums. Result is that after the installation of new tapered bearings, correctly torqued etc, the slight tremor is still there hands off at 40mph but steering is perfect at all other speeds. I am beginning to suspect that it could be the new tyre plus the installation of Ultraseal that may be the problem as it started the day I got the Ultraseal put in? Anyone else had similar probs?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,502 Posts
imported post

Gee!! Well one at a time. My bike has a slight wobble, vibration , whatever you wish to call it. It starts on deceleration from 40 mph down to just a bit below 35 mph then it goes away. I would not even know it was there unless I fully concentrate on it and play with the bike a bit to find it. It is not any concern to me at all, and I consider this normal for the bike.

To me a wobble is a wobble, going down the road with a wobble that is bad enough to wobble with hands on the bars, to me that is a wobble. What I see with the Wings is I think a design resonance, simply what it is and will be, and not to be concerned about. My harley did it, my Venture did it, My sons ST1300 does it but at a very low speed more like 15 mph.

All motorcycles have a slight wobble at some point, it is more than the tires, although bad tires can sure cause it and or make it worse. Especially the rear tire.

Exavid said it best I have heard it said a couple days ago. If the engineers can design a bike so the wobble is at a slow speed, this is good. I simply repeat this as I fully agree.
All bikes from Harley to the Wing to the ST1300 have a wobble at some speeds, and some bikes have it at dangerous speeds, as it moves to a high speed wobble or tank slapper, like the bike similar to the ST1300 used across the pond, and shows up when the top trunk is installed.

I consider a slight very small, resonance , wobble, vibration, a characteristic of the Wing and do not think there is a resolution to it. This is just my opinion and mine only. All I have had experience with are always in the 30 to 40 mph range and very, very slight and something you have to look for. With hands on the bars and in normal use, one would never be aware of it.

I think it important to check the steering head bearings especially at the first scheduled service as the original torque has set and became loose. You will find the locknut loose, I can almost assure you of this. So yes the steering head bearings should be checked periodically. I think if you simply check them and not let them get loose, they will last the life of the bike.

It is at least an hour and a half job(for me anyway)

Take the top meter panel off.
Next is the meter/Navi, take the four 8mm bolts out of it and then unplug the pin connectors

Now unplug the green pin connector in the middle of the steering head(cancel unit)
Next you have to take the fork bridge off, get it off the top as the lock nut and retainer and torque nut is all under the steering bridge. It has four 12 mm bolts holding it to the top of the fork tubes. (oh forgot got to take the handbars off first)

Bend the tab on the retainer up so the lock nut will turn , remove it, now torque the steering head bearings to 21 ft. pounds. Now work the front end back and forth and torque it again. Now run the lock nut on hand tight, then turn it to the next available lock notch and lock the retainer to the nut.

Now put it all back together. Being very sure to get the dust covers back on the meter/navi unit moving them unto and over the pin connectors as you lower it , working by feel .

No do not think the shop checked the steering head bearings for that price.

I think the first check is very important. Once set after initial wear, I figure you can wait a while but the first one is important. that is the one that will catch the initial wear in from the new parts.

Hope this helps Kit

Here you go, I went and hunted this up as I am one to always leave out little things and not explain thing well. The only thing I disagree with is the grease. I use moly 60 grease and think you should. Not just any ole bearing grease.

stembearings Photo Gallery by fred harmon at pbase.com Kit
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8 Posts
imported post

My First post: I have a 2007 with 22,000 mile. I am replacing the stock springs with Progressives! ( My Question Is) which way did everyone insert the spring??? Factory has No preference ( Poll) .... Second : I purchased a TCMLW Lift from Complete Hydraulics in Indiana..... It's rated at 1500 lbs and comes with side panels ,that are removable to work closer to the bike and also comes with a scissor jack as standard equipment . It was well worth the $100.00 more for this well built lift! There web page if interested is www.completehydraulic.com I hope this helps~
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
imported post

Kit, thanks for the heads up on the stem bearing adjustment together with the pictures from Fred.



DeDubya :18white:thanks for starting this thread too.




Now I have a nice Sat project.:cheeky1::cheeky1::cheeky1:



Longboater,
 

·
Honda Guru
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
imported post

There's a very easy explaination why there were 2 different prices for the 8k service.

Honda, according to the maintence schedule, requires the inspection of the secondary air supply. In order to do this the fuel tank and the air cleaner housing have to be removed. Quite a bit of additional labor is required if the service is to be followed 'by the book'.



On the other hand, of all the 1800's I serviced, I never saw a need for this inspection. So... don't get too mad at that first dealership... they might have been acting in your best interest. But knowing what DOESNT' need to be done is just as important as what HAS to be done during a service.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
510 Posts
imported post

Fred Harmon does a very good job in his video and on the photos of adjusting the bearings but UK and European model owners beware !! On the USA Model 1800 you can do this adjustment as Fred indicates without removing the top shelter but you have no choice but to take the top shelter off onthe European model which increases the work required.

On the USA model you simply remove the dash, drop the handbars and remove the top bridge to get to the bearing assemble. On the UK model there is a clamp (which I have been told is related to the European HISS System?) that goes from the ignition barrell mount to the leading edge of the top bridge. Approx 3mm of this clamp sits over the back edge of the top bridge thereby preventing it's removal. Removal of this clamp solves the problem and allows the top bridge to lift straight off. It willNOT come off with this clamp in place. Non-European models without the HISS System do not have this clamp.

When doing the job on a European bike it looks simple but the two 8mm bolts holding on the clamp are below the top shelter meaning that the top shelter has to come off to get at them. I tried sliding the top shelter back a little but this didn't work and as all securing screws etc had been taken off it is easier to just remove the shelter.

I did the major job myself of installing tapered bearings which wasn't easy but very interesting and enjoyable using Fred Harmon's DVD set. (Thanks Fred). After a good run the bearing was loose having set itself nicely in place, so I went back and did the adjustment which worked well. It is recommended you do another torque adjustment after fitting new bearings. It was here that I discovered the need for European model owners to remove the top shelter to get the top bridge off.

For info of any owners of European 1800's adjusting their steering bearings.:)


********************************************************************

Ref the question about the progressive springs I fitted mine with the tighter coil at the bottom which appears to be the norm.

If anyone is doing the fork oil level at the same time I made this little device from a household pump taken from a hand cleaning bottle. It worked brilliant.

I drilled a hole in a small piece of wood and inserted the tube from the pump through it, pushing the wood right up to the top. I then marked the exact measurement of the fork level as the distance from the bottom of the piece of wood to the bottom of the tube. Next I cut the tube to the exact size so that the distance from the wood to the end of the tube was the same as the fork fluid level. When filling the forks with fluid I slightly overfilled them both by about 5ml. I then inserted the tube in the fork until the piece of wood rested on the top of the fork and pumped the top of the pump with a little container below the spout to catch the fluid. The pump then began to draw the excess fluid out the spout into the container and when at exactly the correct level, air came out of the pump indicating that the level was correctly set. Very easy and very effective at ensuring the level is precisely set at recommended level. Any household pump found in the kitchen would do thesame job in extracting the excess fluid.



 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,185 Posts
imported post

Thanks for the heads up about the HISS related thingLittlejohn, that is one to store away in my memory banks for future reference!!! :clapper::clapper:



Going back to your earlier mention of the continued wobble, it does unfortunately point towards a tyre issue since you have done the head bearings already. I will beinterested to hear if the Ultra seal has anything to do with things, perhaps the wheel might need re balancing since it's introduction? I too experienced the wobble, when my front tyre got well worn and the change of tyres eliminated it immediately, but I haven't got around to putting in Ultra seal or any other propriatory brand of tyre sealant.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
510 Posts
imported post

Pete one thing I did notice was that the wobble on my bike only becomes evident when at exactly 40mph on cruise control with the speed constant and both hands off the handlebars. Under acceleration it disappears immediately. I suspect it is the new set of tyres or wheel balance and it is so minor that it isn't really a problem. I only took my hands off the handlebars with the cruise control on, to check how good my new tapered bearings were. 20mph, 30mph, 50mph etc the steering was perfect but a very slight wobble at 40mph exactly. Changing the bearings was very challenging and very interesting. Hardest bit was removing the old races from the steering stem. Fred's tip of putting the stem and new races in the freezer so they would go on easier was unusual but it worked. The wife wasn't too impressed though! Fred Harmon's DVD set was outstanding and I couldn't have done it without it.

The new springs and change of fork oil made a big improvement. The oil was in for 25,000 miles which was too long. Now I have done it myself I will be changing the fork oil again every 10,000 miles.

Full service done myself as a DIY job saving a fortune in the process. Bit bored now with nothing left to do on the bike which is all shinned up ready for the good weather.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,185 Posts
imported post

Full service done myself as a DIY job saving a fortune in the process. Bit bored now with nothing left to do on the bike which is all shinned up ready for the good weather.
Any clues as to which day that good weather is going to be on yet!!!!:?:(

Still gota smattering of snow in the garden even after two days of torrential rain here. Guess I will just have to unbury the Wing and do some cosmetic work on her soon. Got the saddlebag lights to wire in, but otherwise good to go at the moment, just need some weather to suit!!

I must say,when my front tyre got worn,the wobble that I got was noticeable without even removing hands from the bars, so yours doesn't sound too serious.

I am sure the change of bearings and fluid will bring longer term benifit.:)You will certainly have saved a fortune by doing yourself and it sounds like the investment in the videos paid dividens. So far I have jsut got the downloaded service manuals from here on the site and a Clymer manual, to keep me going.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,502 Posts
imported post

The Wobble: Do you guys really have a wobble? Is it not just a small vibration at 40 mph down to maybe 35 and then goes away. If your hands are on the bars is it not a fact you do not even notice it.

So many people have spent so much money over that issue. New tires, new steering head bearings and even complete new fork suspension systems. And still when all done have the same situation. :?:X:gunhead:

I have seen folks sell their bike over it. Why? It is only a harmonics/resonance type thing at that speed. It is never going to go away. You might over torque the steering head to the point it masks it for awhile, but it will be back.

Does not concern me, but do know when I first purchased a Wing you all had me worried about this WOBBLE thing. To me is just like any other bike, they all have a certain point the have that set harmonics at, and to me as long as it is not at 85 mph on a bridge with little rain grooves in it, it is all good.

I am not worried about the WOBBLE, if it wobbles I just crack the throttle and enjoy the southern sunshine. :action::action:

Now, my own real opinion on it. I know the engineers all say it is harmonics/resonance and even folks older than me with lots more experience with bikes also state this.

My own idea of the whole thing is the tires. What I have noticed is as long as you have a good rear tire with new tread the real wobble never shows up, what remains is the deceleration wobble caused by the front tire. This will vary depending on the brand and tread design of the tire. Quite simply at a set speed all conditions are right for the front tire to hop skip and jump across the road and even if a tire looks like it is not scalloped it is to a certain degree, even after 500 miles. So this small vibration or walk if you will is simply due to the tire.

The OEM 250 on my bike walks the walk on decel at 40 down to 35 or so. With the Stone 709 the walk does not start till about 36 mph and stops at 34, it is just a brief period there. Also the Stone will not vibrate until about 3000 miles, and even then with any tire you have to really look for it.

I simply consider it normal, and it is a situation with any motorcycle ever made. Go rent a Harley Ultra for a weekend, play with it in the Walmart Parking lot, it has a wobble at 45 mph. My Venture had one too. The tires simply do this due to the tread pattern and the large expanses of rubber between the traction sipes. Allows the leading edge of the material ahead of the sipe to compress, scallop and walk the walk.

You will notice on older bikes with tires that have a very different tread design, more like old bias ply Car Tires there is no vibration, the tread is simply closer together, tires like Kendal, pirelli , and combination tires for enduro bikes tend to not wobble.

Just my observation over the years. I think you all are fretting over something that is not a concern and will always be.

Okay shutting up now. Just hate to see people spend all that money trying to resolve something that in my opinion is not resolvable.

Kit

Kit
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,185 Posts
imported post

What I got when my tyres were worn I would describe more as a wobble, or perhaps heavy shimmy, rather than just vibration. Still I would agree that it is just an imbalance of the natural gyroscopic effect of the wheel, but it was disconcerting. As I say, replacement of the well worn tyres immediately resolved it.

I do not get it with good tyres and yes, I have even taken my hands off the bars to check, against my better judgement I would hasten to add. Not a murmer with good tyres on wheelsthat are ballanced.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
151 Posts
imported post

I traded my 1980 GL1100I for a 1999 GL1500A in October and was immediately struck by the difference in handling, much as described above. Kit's explanation as to different types of tires make a lot of sense and I am beginning to drop plans to change everything to get rid of what I have been experiencing. I love my little red rocket sled, but at around 50 or so it will feel like it is dropping off to one side or the other. It's a slight feeling, like maybe 2 degrees or so. My 1980 never gave this feeling.



It's annoying, and I don't feel that the bike is unsafe or out of control. But I don't like it too much and is the only bad mark I have on the bike. Maybe "uncomfortable" is more accurate a description. When it happens, I am always putting pressure on one handlebar or the other to keep it straight up. The rear tire has a couple of shallowcuts across part of the tread, which I found as I was putting it up for the winter. I have a new Metzler ME880 to put on this weekend. Once the weather clears up here, we'll see if that improves it. I hope it will, because it reduces my joy and I am pretty sure my wife will not enjoy leaning from one side to the other. Only 5 weeks left here to the possible riding season. Take care, Dick
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
imported post

Ah yes, the "Walking Wobble" and the "Leaning Corner Whine", all's normal that goes with the enjoyment of the ride. "Ride em to the marks" I say.



I have seen tires and tyres worn way passed the marks on one or two 1800s. One front even had the cords showing. Don't recommend this but it is interesting that they can go that far, the rider too.



Regarding the "Flat Proof" stuff. I installed RideOn in both tires at 10,000 miles and did not notice any change in the wobble issue that was hardly noticable. Really had to hunt for it. As the tires gained mileage my experience was normal. This set of Stones has 19,000 miles onit and the performance is very acceptable. The rear still has the plug in it from 11,000 miles and appears to be holding very well too. (I do carry tire plugs and a tiny compressor.)



Late in the spring the set will be changed out. Kit's rear "Dark Sider" looks interesting. What about the front Kit? What's your opinion on matching that to a front Stone?



Longboater,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,299 Posts
imported post

Dedubya, I wish my 10 k service on my Harley was as cheap as your 8k was. They charge around $425, and from past experience don't do a much more then a glorified oil change.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
919 Posts
imported post

I have to agree with Kit I also think its a Harmonics issue. Before the Wing I had a Suzuki 03 Intruder that had the same issue. If you go to their forums youll see the same issue with the same fix for the Intruders-All Balls. I firmly believe its a characteristic of the shaft drive.If you watch your tire pressures and suspension setting you can minimize it. But it seems like some people are more sensitive to it than others. Just my 2 cents worth.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
510 Posts
imported post

Big Cahuna wrote:
Dedubya, I wish my 10 k service on my Harley was as cheap as your 8k was. They charge around $425, and from past experience don't do a much more then a glorified oil change.
I am no mechanic and can just about find my way around my motorcycle but there is a great deal of satisfaction to be had from DIY servicing. I bought my 1800 in 2003 and apart from the frame recall it hasn't been near a garage for any work. My past experience is that garages charge a fortune and do the bare minimum required on the bike.



When you do it yourself you can be safe in the knowledge that it has been done. Also when DIY you can get in and clean those normally inexcessible parts of the bike while you have it apart, something the garage wouldn't do for you. It is hard to find a dedicated Goldwing mechanic so your bike will be serviced by a general bike mechanic who won't be up to spec with those little characteristics of the Goldwing. The more you work at your own bike the more you get to know how it all works so the easier it gets next time you do it.



When you consider the price of an oil change which is one sump nut removal, replacing a screw on /off filter and pouring in some more oil, is it really worth what they charge when you can do it yourself for the price of a few parts which the garage charge you for anyway. You will also find that you will enjoy doing it yourself so much that you will be servicing the bike more often than recommended which isn't a bad thing. At the moment the only thing I wouldn't tackle is the engine but if well looked after with goodregular oil changes it should last a lifetime. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
618 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
imported post

WOW!! Thanks guys for all of the insignt, and especially thanks to you,Kit. I do my own oil changes at intervals less than the dealer calls for, butthe factory recommended service "requirements" scare me a bit. I know that the "15 point safety inspection" is just checking fluids and lights for the most part, but when it comes to bearings and the likeI'm a little intimidated by it. They told me that if I change my own oil, I don'tneed to bring the bike back in until 12,000 at which point it willneed a new air filter. From what I've heard and seen, I don't think I want to even tackle that on the 1800. Ithink I'll have the steering head bearings checked at that service andjust shell out the bucks, I guess...

Don't misunderstand, I have plenty of experience in automotivemechanics having worked in a garage in my younger daysdoing everything from air filter changes to engine rebuilds, but it's been many years and my "want to" is just not there anymore and I've never really worked on bikes. I figure that as long as I can afford it, and I continue to trust theHonda dealership who, I figure,knows the bike better than me, then I'll spend a little extra...maybe??? That's my thinkin today anyway.

Y'all's thoughts???

DeDub :18white:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,502 Posts
imported post

Longboater wrote:
Ah yes, the "Walking Wobble" and the "Leaning Corner Whine", all's normal that goes with the enjoyment of the ride. "Ride em to the marks" I say.



I have seen tires and tyres worn way passed the marks on one or two 1800s. One front even had the cords showing. Don't recommend this but it is interesting that they can go that far, the rider too.



Regarding the "Flat Proof" stuff. I installed RideOn in both tires at 10,000 miles and did not notice any change in the wobble issue that was hardly noticable. Really had to hunt for it. As the tires gained mileage my experience was normal. This set of Stones has 19,000 miles onit and the performance is very acceptable. The rear still has the plug in it from 11,000 miles and appears to be holding very well too. (I do carry tire plugs and a tiny compressor.)



Late in the spring the set will be changed out. Kit's rear "Dark Sider" looks interesting. What about the front Kit? What's your opinion on matching that to a front Stone?



Longboater,
I like the 709 Stone. No one can ever convince me there is a better tire. It may wear a bit faster than some others, but it does stick to the road. I like traction, and it is the best one I have found for that. As for wear on a stone on the front, 20,000 is not to be unexpected. So I am happy with them. I have a brand new one sitting in my closet waiting to be put on in August before the run to Colorado.

Were I to return to a motorcycle tire on the rear, it would be the 704 Stone, they just work best with the 1800.

There is a new tire in town for the Darkside, some very good experienced riders are trying it out. It is a bit more narrow, and it is said it almost matches the performance of a round tire. Almost no tail kick, and splits the difference between the round tire and the
Kumho.

I am watching. And waiting. To see what develops. Trialsman is one of the guys testing it, and he is about the very best slow speed, parking lot, drill team riders I have ever seen ride. That is the guy with the yellow wing in the safty videos on this site somewhere. The tire is a Dunny, 3D Wintersport 175/60/16 Run Flat. Winter tread.
We will see. Too early just yet , this is a new thing. Some are calling it the holy grail for the Darkside. But we will see, watch it a bit . My Kumho is never going to wear out, it still looks like new, I would suspect over 40,000 if I take it to the wear bars. Just guessing but sure still looks new to me.

Kit
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top