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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see so many people blame Ethanol for just about anything and every thing.

Gee, my pickup truck transmission broke, or my brakes went out, darned Ethanol junk gas LOL

Are all of you really too YOUNG to have seen real gas like in the 70's and before?
Say just plain unleaded regular, no Ethanol or Lead in it. And the Leaded stuff even before that?
Even as a kid I was messing with old junk cars and stuff, before I was old enough legally drive! Ethanol had never even been thought of at that time, let alone when many of those old clunkers I'd buy had been parked like 1-5 years earlier.
No way any of those cars could have possibly have used any Ethanol gas, unless people were dumping in like 20-30 bottles of DRY GAS LOL

Gas is just plain bad for stuff, it always has been.
Pure gas only, nothing else available. Carbs still got gunked up, corroded, slime, diagrams rotted and leaked, floats stuck, pinholes rusted into metal floats, rubber cork type foats just sunk!
Fuel pumps got leaking Diaphragms also. And steel lines fuel lines would rust. Rubber fuel lines would like dry rot crack and suck air. Gas tanks rusted out (mostly from outside, but lots from the inside also).

All of this has been going on since cars ( and other engines) have been being made, like at least 50 years before Ethanol was ever even thought of!

My uncle was a mechanic with his own small shop since like the 50's till he died in 80's, my dad hauled in junk cars and cut them up for scrap when I was a kid. I was working on cars since I could hold a ratchet in my hand. Sure the first few years no idea what I was doing, just taking 4,000 lb toys apart LOL
I could do more on cars, better work, when I was 16 than I can now.

All the problems we have today with fuel systems I have seen just as bad way back in 70's before Ethanol!
Sure it is really easy to blame Ethanol if the diaphragm in a 4 barrel carb is pouring out gas, but I've had to replace at least 20 of them for same reason on old vehicles that never saw a drop of Ethanol!!

I'd rather have pure gas for many reasons, but Ethanol is NOT the root of all evil! LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
There are the wild stories and claims that Ethanol gets anywhere from 25-45% less MPG also. I think some people just do not know how to check and figure MPG very well! :ROFL:

When I am able to buy pure gas I have compared it well to E10 gas.
At no time have I ever gotten 10% better mileage on Pure compare to E10 that I remember at the moment.

One thing to consider in MPG however is Compression!
Just like Diesel, Alcohol likes a high compression engine.
Although Diesel does not ignite by spark, but Alcohol does, it's still a matter of heat!
Alcohol likes to be hot, and the hotter it is the better it burns!
A low compression worn out engine at say 60PSI is not going to burn Alcohol as well as say a 180PSI compression engine will.
Compressing a fuel generates heat, the more it is compressed the hotter it gets. This is how a Diesel engine runs without spark, it compresses the fuel to the point it is hot enough to ignite on it's own.
 

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On the Goldwing, I get 10-20% better miles per gallon on regular gas no ethanol. I buy premium no ethanol whenever I find it.

The Silverwing had never tasted it until a few days ago. It has never run better, with a tremendous amount of additional power. Not sure of the miles per gallon on it yet, but I know it likes no ethanol gas.
 

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We can buy E10 fuel for the princely sum of 2 cents per litre less than unleaded fuel without ethanol. Fuel usage is regularly 5-10% more than with straight unleaded fuel and as we are currently paying around $1.50 per litre it does not pay to use E10. I have also found where the 2 stroke fuel with E10 has separated into big snotty trails when it has been left sitting around in my chainsaw for awhile. I only use our premium fuel in anything that sits around for awhile which is 12 cents a litre dearer than E10 and worth the expense in my mind.
 

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Stop Blamming ETHANOL for everything

We could just blame GW Bush. :ROFL:Really since there is no up side to using ethanol I don't see why you are defending it.
 

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Theoretically, the lower MPG with e10 makes sense, since it takes a richer alcohol per air mixture for ideal combustion, nearly twice as much. So at 10% ethanol you're probably going to see a slight decrease in fuel milage.

I also see Chromo's point. I've read some really outlandish blaming of problems on ethanol in the fuel. Good quality carb soft parts hold up just fine to e10 in my experience...and I do lots of carb work. Nor have I had any problems mixing up two stroke cocktail with e10. Although if your two stroke is 'living on the lean edge', and you switch from straight petro to an ethanol mix you might want 'jet up' a little.

I have an ST1100 and a VFR800FI. I've ran both straight petro and e10 in both and if there's a difference in drivability I haven't found it. In a blind test I couldn't tell which was in the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm not really trying to defend it so much as just saying we had most of the same problems before Ethanol as we have with it.
Some things are getting kinda silly with folks saying it's the E10 when any problem occurs now.
Darned E10, I filled my car yesterday and today all my tires all went flat, I hate E10 LOL
 

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My cage gets 23 mpg with E-10 and 17 mpg with E-85 on average. I don't need premium in my cycle but I will run it if the alternative is any quantity of ethanol.
 

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From Honda Motor Company:

Can I use ethanol fuel in my Honda product?

  • E10 ethanol fuel can be used with Honda Marine and Power Equipment, and also motorcycles produced after 1990, although it is not recommended.
  • It's important to know:
    1. Ethanol Fuel can damage paintwork - Take care not to spill when refuelling, and promptly wipe off any spill.
    2. Rubber Fuel System Parts may become degraded more quickly.
    3. Depending on weather, and the condition of the motorcycle, driveability may be adversely affected.
    4. For marine applications it's best to speak to the boat builder. There will be issues with certain fuel tanks (aluminium and fibreglass) as well as hoses and other fuel line components.
  • Use of higher ethanol grade fuels may cause running and/or performance issues. If an engine failure occurs and a higher ethanol grade fuel has been used then repairs will not be covered by the Honda limited warranty.
So, Honda says use the stuff at your own risk, ...not theirs.
Heck, Jimmy Carter pushed the stuff and didn't buy into it. He stuck with peanuts and his Brothers beer idea ...as they were safer hedges to bet on. Gasahol was a gamble and he knew it.
 

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Well there are some winners in the rush to ethanol. PIC acres have been reduced so the government is paying out less money to farmers for NOT growing anything. Corn farmers are getting higher prices for their crops.

Unfortunately that increases the price for all human related food including meat. Its not just corn that went up, all other crops need to compete in price with corn otherwise the farmers will grow corn to make the money.

I believe that using food for fuel will come back to bite us in the ar$e !

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Another problem I have with ethanol is they take someting from a food group and make fuel out of it. With all the world hunger it dosn't make sense to me. There's a lot of other ways to make ethanol.
 

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The Blackbird seems to be very happy on the "up to 10% ethanol" regular grade gas commonly available here. Clear premium is available at select stations though and I've thought of trying a tank of it out of curiosity to see if there's any noticable difference in mileage or performance.
 

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'Long about the same time they started putting ethanol in gas, I started losing hair and gaining weight. So I blame ethanol for my being fat & bald.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just so you'll know:
http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_history.html
Ethanol has been here almost "forever".
Thanks that was very interesting reading and lots of good facts!

Funny how we started out on Moonshine, went to oil, now moving back to Moonshine again LOL

It is also amazing how many people do not know that the Ethanol in their gas is plain old Moonshine, and the same thing as EverClear from the liquor store LOL
 

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My parents bought a riding mower new in 2000, have been running the cheapest gas around, I have never had do do anything but change oil, new blades, two worn out tires, and batteries. Let it sit all winter, and never failed to start. That's 13 years running 10%, never even had to change belts.
 

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Thanks that was very interesting reading and lots of good facts!

Funny how we started out on Moonshine, went to oil, now moving back to Moonshine again LOL

It is also amazing how many people do not know that the Ethanol in their gas is plain old Moonshine, and the same thing as EverClear from the liquor store LOL
Not a complete truth, but true enough. Fuel-grade Ethanol (there are different grades/uses of/for Ethanol besides "Fuel") contains Methanol. Methanol is there to provide odor and to induce vomiting amongst other reasons.

Many do not realize the content of E-10 (or other grades) at the pump.
E-10 can be as low as E-4 and as high as E-13. Seasonal variations in average daily temperature are the reason for the content variations. E-85 can be as low as E-70 and as high as E-92 for the same reason.
Ethanol, as mentioned, needs more heat to combust. Overnight and in your driveway, the fuel does not want to combust very easily no matter what engine it is in. The closer to the center of Winter we get, the lower the E-XX number will be in reality from the pumps designated grade posting. In the summer, the higher the number from the posted signage.
....which brings me to my mission of peak performance and ability to quickly test the stuff on-the-spot at-the-pump. How do I know how to tune a carburetor without knowing what kind of lean-out the fuel is going to give me? A 9% swing in variation of Alcohol content in my fuel is a variable that I'd like to know. So would others. Most older fuel injection cannot compensate much beyond the 10% figure. Most older ECM's, PCU's, EFI and PFI controllers and the like do not know what to do with liquid-based oxygen very well at all, as the stuff was not forseen as being in widespread use by the masses at the time of their manufacture.

...and give-up the idea of running a solvent-laiden fuel in any 2-stroke engine'd machine. That is "Technological Suicide" in any book.

*The day will come - Ethyl Alcohol-based fuel will be a Manufacturer mandate in new vehicles, with the added bonus of voiding your warranty if running fuel without the stuff. Giving to you by the Worlds Governments at-large.

I'm gonna start a new movement = "Embrace Ethanol"
"Soylent Green" will be my business model. Mu-Yah... .. .
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well the big money does not care if we can eat or not, they want to sell fuel and also get their subsidies etc..

ANYTHING just about, that is high in sugar content will make Ethanol.
I've made allot of my own years ago. The permit to operate a FUEL still was free and very simple to apply for, maybe it still is, I have not looked recently.
I had a freind who had the permit so we distilled my wort at his place, but then he moved away. Since I was often not home allot I never bother getting my own permit or still. I still have 1 maybe 2 35gal barrels of wort out in the yard, though by now it probably turned to vinegar exposed to air when the air lock dried out. Only been sitting about 5 or more years LOL

It's really nothing more than mixing a sugar product with water and adding yeast.
Wait awhile. It varies with what your making and how you mixed it, but normally should be done in 2-3weeks. Then just distill it, bring it to around 185-195F to evaporate off the alcohol and condense it elsewhere by cooling.
To be legal it must be Poisoned for "OFF Premise Use" which is as simple as just running it through a galvanized pipe or mixing with gas.

At the time I was making some, maybe still, you could get a $0.60 tax CREDIT per gallon made. I never bothered with the credits.

Using food producing lands is crazy, but cheap and fast, so they do it that way.
There are things that grow wild that can be used and produce decent amount of fuel, maybe not as much per pound as corn does, but it's there and does not effect our food supply!

As far as fuel needed to make fuel, only the big guys need to be so crazy!
I built a Solar Still and we used it twice before my friend moved away. It worked pretty good though needed a couple improvements. I gave it to my friend to take with him since I did not need it.

Most anyone can make their own Ethanol at home! I had a friend that was making his a couple gallons at a time and he lived in an apartment! He used a plastic storage bin and fish tank heaters and a drip system so everything was actually sealed in the 1 bin. I made a couple gallons like that a couple times with mine but did not like using electric for heat.
 

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:wtf:I see we are getting a new station near me that has E-40 .What the H is this?
 

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:wtf:I see we are getting a new station near me that has E-40 .What the H is this?
Flex-Fuel E-85 vehicles can run it. They can run all grades between E-10 and E-85.

It's a easy to mix for the Marketers (gas stations).

E-85 from the depot delivered to the in-ground tanks at a station can then be mixed at the pump 50/50 for E-40. Most newer equipment can remotely program the mixing percentages from the Managers office at newer C-Store gas stations. Remote programming of mixing valves via the Internet as well.
Gotta love the Internet.
 
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