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My 86A had 86000 miles on it when I bought it and a few weeks ago I did my first oil change on it and switched to Rotella 5W-40 synthetic.I have since put 1500 miles on it and now it seems to have gotten some lifter noise to it. It has a distinctive tapon start up and then becomes difficult to dinstinguish as it warms up since there are other high freq rattling noises of indistinguishable character as I drive. (like a set of keys rattling on the engine block is about the best way I can describe it)

Anyhow, I was wondering if there is any additive I can put with synthetic to help with the lifter noise? I have also been told by a friend of mine that you shouldn't switch to synthetic in a high mileage bike as it will start oil leaks around the seals?????Anyone heard of this happening and being attributed to switching oils?

Should I just turn up the radio and not worry about a little noise from the lifters?

The good news is the bike starts and runs GREAT. I really have no complaints about the way it runs.
 

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I don't have the guts to switch to synthetic in my 1200, but, can tell you that when I did switch to synthetic on my wife's Honda Accord it blew the camshaft seal the next morning.

The rattling sound you mention sounds like the carbs need synchronization.

Vic
 

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If you look back in the forum several months ago,, there was a lot of discussion about fossil and sythetic oils in our wings.. Especially the older models.

Some said synthetic was o.k., some said it ate the seals,, some said the newer synthetics had been improved to not destroy seals... The talk went on and on...

When your bike was built, synthetic oil was not regularly available or even heard of at the time, so the best thing to do was use fossil oil. Some also say that once you go to synthetic oil, you can never go back to fossil oil... It's really not clear...

My thoughts on your situation are to immediately remove the synthetic oil by performing at least two oil & filter changes to flush the system and install a high detergent fossil oil that meets the OEM specs for your bike. Run the engine for about 20 minutes or so on the center stand so it heats up and go thru the gears a few times. The synthetic oil hasn't been in long enough to cause any permanent changes inside.

Change over to at least a 10w / 40w fossil oil,, not the 5w / 40w you had. As the ambient temperature increases during the summer months, change to a 20w /50w high detergent oil. You'll find the lifter noise will abate and you won't harm the seals or internal engine bearings.

Other guru's will be jumping in on this subject, so listen to what we all have to say and form your own final decision on what you want to do.. I do not advocate synthetic oil in any engine unless the manufacturer recommends it... good luck and keep us all posted on how this turns out...

p.s. I have an 86 Aspy and have never used synthetic oil.. It runs very quiet and no problems... :waving:
 

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airbeat wrote:
My 86A had 86000 miles on it when I bought it and a few weeks ago I did my first oil change on it and switched to Rotella 5W-40 synthetic.I have since put 1500 miles on it and now it seems to have gotten some lifter noise to it. It has a distinctive tapon start up and then becomes difficult to dinstinguish as it warms up since there are other high freq rattling noises of indistinguishable character as I drive. (like a set of keys rattling on the engine block is about the best way I can describe it)

Anyhow, I was wondering if there is any additive I can put with synthetic to help with the lifter noise? I have also been told by a friend of mine that you shouldn't switch to synthetic in a high mileage bike as it will start oil leaks around the seals?????Anyone heard of this happening and being attributed to switching oils?

Should I just turn up the radio and not worry about a little noise from the lifters?

The good news is the bike starts and runs GREAT. I really have no complaints about the way it runs.
Harry, I doubt it's the synthetic blend that is causing your lifter clatter.. Oil viscosity is the same whether it’s synthetic or dino..
My guess would be it’s either the 5W part that’s causing you the problem (5W40 oil is just 5 weight oil that doesn’t thin any more than 40 weight would when it gets real hot) or you have an oil filter difference that is changing your oil flow or adding turbulence in the filter area..
If the oil filter is the same brand & type you have been using & no air leaks in the suction side of the oil system then it’s probably the thinner 5 weight base oil..
One other thing comes to mind— Any chance you over-filled the crankcase? If so you could be frothing the oil & adding air to it & the air is causing soggy lifters..
Baring some dirt that was broken loose either during the oil change,, or some of the new synthetic oil additives loosening come crud in the crankcase, it’s probably just that thinner oil.. Maybe CAREFULLY drain that synthetic (to save it)& try conventional 10-30 or 15-40 to see if the lifters quiet down,, if so either leave that oil in it or try a 15-40 synthetic oil..
 

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The 1200 and older Wing engines don't like synthetic. I'd switch back to good quality mineral stratght away.
 

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Eamonn1200 wrote:
The 1200 and older Wing engines don't like synthetic.

Eamonn, why do you say that? What doesn't the 1200 & earlier Wing like about the synthetic oil & what synthetics don't they like? Some synthetics are mostly dino oil & some dino oils have synthetics in them.



JDC
 

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I switched my 1200 to synthetic and didn't have any problem. No leaks, no strange noises. Far as I can see, good quality oil is good quality oil.
 

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JDC Wrote:
Baring some dirt that was broken loose either during the oil change,, or some of the new synthetic oil additives loosening come crud in the crankcase, it’s probably just that thinner oil.. Maybe CAREFULLY drain that synthetic (to save it)& try conventional 10-30 or 15-40 to see if the lifters quiet down,, if so either leave that oil in it or try a 15-40 synthetic oil..

I am thinking about doing that JDC. My gut tells me that the thinner oil 5W-40 may be the problem. I have ordered some new filters and when they come in I will give a heavier weight oil a try. I just didn't know if there was an additive to synthetic to rasie the viscosity a bit to quiet the lifters.

I also am taking Vic's suggestion about tuning the carbs to get rid of the rattling noise I hear. I don't know when or if they were tuned. It seems to have good power and acceleration but then again I have nothing to compare it to right now.

Morgan Carbtune II seems to be a goodtool for tuning the carbs and as soon as I put together a few dollars next week I'll send off for one.

Harry
 

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One would assume so exavid, but, each different oil has different chacteristics that may compliment or conflict with each different engine's needs.

For instance if an engine has been overheated the seals will react a certain way to the additive built into the oil.

At the oil seals, some seals may be so worn that the new synthetic oil may have enough seal softening ability to actually cause a leak that would not have occurred if theregularly used oil was still being used.

At the oil pump,some synthetics will be propelled at a higher initial velocity through the oiling system because of the inherenthigher cohesion qualities of the synthetic oil blend thereby causing a sudden increase in pressure momentarily and this could effectively blow a seal out of position like it did on my wife's Accord.

I'm not an expert on oils and these are simply my theories on the different oils based on many years of fleet management in conjunction with Quaker State oil analysis trials.

Vic
 
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Im most certainly not an expert in Oil, :stumped:but everytime this topic sticks it's head up members write and write and write about synthetic oil. :crying:I have been riding different kinds of m/cycles :weightlifter: for the past 35yrs and never have used synthetic oil :whip: and never had any problems with engines,gearbox, etc. My advice is, just use whatever the maker recommends and change it often. :clapper: Goldwings dont need synthetic oil. :whip:

:leprechaun: :18red: :leprechaun:
 

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Positively identify the source of the noise before chasing problems, theres no reason I can think of that simply switching to synthetic would cause oil flow problems to the lifters... except.. if it had a heavy detergent package and knocked some junk loose that lodged in an oil restrictor plate in the head. That oiling system has restrictors on each head to limit the oil flow to the top end (I mean, side end?) Or a detergent has loosened some junk thats sticking a lifter? Bad karma?

Remote possibility there is a thin main bearing that the 5W is leaking through and its killing the oil pressure.

Doubt its weight because it does it when cold.

Good time for an oil pressure test. Aint worth smoking an engine.

Father in law (farmer) has seen seal leakage (bad, too) when changing oil on old trucks. Apparently the oil washes the deposits off from around old gunked-up seals.

Call the oil mfgr, they might want to know about it. No fun trying to market a product with good intent that causes unwanted side effects.
 

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Try going back to "Organic Oil" and see if the engine quiets down?

I've run "Synthetic Oil" in all my bikes and cars for 35 years with no problems at all and get over 250,000 miles out of some of my vehicles ( I drive 150 miles round trip to work each day ) !

My old Wing is running great on "Mobile 1" with no problems !

But the late milage change may be the reason for the noise?!

Ther's really not a "Magic" additive , although I know guys that swear by "Lucas" additive!

Actually with a "Water Cooled" bike you don't really need a "synthetic" oil !
 

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I may be off base here, but don't the 1200s have hydraulic lifters, and therefore, should they be free from any tappet noises?

Just wondering.

Jack
 

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I have been riding different kinds of m/cycles :weightlifter: for the past 35yrs and never have used synthetic oil :whip: and never had any problems with engines,gearbox, etc. My advice is, just use whatever the maker recommends and change it often. :clapper: Goldwings dont need synthetic oil. :whip:

You go Redwing... My sentiments to the letter...

You really do deserve honorary guru... I'll stick on it...
 

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jsmith24 wrote:
I may be off base here, but don't the 1200s have hydraulic lifters, and therefore, should they be free from any tappet noises?

Just wondering.

Jack
They do have hydraulic lifters, but still manage to make a bit of noise. In fact I thought the main reason to use needle bearings in the rocker shaft on the 93and later1500s was to reduce cam and valve noises.
 

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jsmith24 wrote:
I may be off base here, but don't the 1200s have hydraulic lifters, and therefore, should they be free from any tappet noises?

Just wondering.

Jack

I would think the same Jack but regardless, there is a distinctive valve tap especially on start up and then blends into other noises (carbs out of synch maybe) when running. Just though maybe a heavier weight oil might quiet it down or some majic additive for the synthetic already in it.

Harry
 

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jsmith24 wrote:
I may be off base here, but don't the 1200s have hydraulic lifters, and therefore, should they be free from any tappet noises?

Just wondering.



Jack, in theory YES,, in practical operation,, NO..

Problem is: hydraulic lifters need oil in them ALL the time to remain pumped upso they follow the cam lobes at "0" lash..

Any air bubbles in the oil, (actually in the lifters) allow the lifters to collapse slightly & therefore yield slightly instead of exactly following the cam lobe.

Thin oil,, dirt particles in the oil,, air bubbles in the oil,, low oil pressure,, worn lifter internal valves,, loose lifters in the lifter bore,, worn cam lobes,, worn cam bearings,,or any excess wear in the upper valve train like worn rockers,, rocker arm side play,, loose valve stems to guides,, warped valve heads,, or any other things that won't allow the valve train or lifter to return to the same base circle height & length can add or contribute to valve noise..

There is also the possibility you lifters are bleeding down slightly when parked & the thinner 5Woil allows that to happen easier..


Because the problem showed up right after an oil change to synthetic oil it could easily be related to either the oil or filter..

It could be as simple as excess excess rocker arm side play or rockers that are not centered correctly (a known problem on early Wings) & the thinner 5W oil allows them to move easier or clack louder when they do move & hit the end stops..

I see a fairly high incidence ofvalve (lifter) noise in the auto industry &while the causes can vary, most seem related to sticking lifter internal valves or aeration of the oil due to suction side oil system pin hole leaks..



JDC
 

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airbeat wrote:
valve tap especially on start up and then blends into other noises (carbs out of synch maybe) when running.

Harry
[/quote]

Distinctive exhaust noise, not lifter noise. They sound identical. Listen to the exhaust headers on that side thru a small plece of pipe or mechanics stethescope. Should not have valvetrain problems at 86K miles.
 

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Airbeat,

Since you live here in Texas, you should be running something like Castrol 20W50, I would not switch an engine with high miles to synthetic oil,,,just my opinion, I don't see the purpose,,,yes the synthetic oil will go longer without breaking down, but that means the dirt that is in the engine gets circulated for that much longer, grinding down moving parts. My 1200 had some lifter noise when I got it . I have been using the Castrol 20-50 in it and it quitened down. As a matter of fact I have used it for a very long time in everything from my lawnmowers to my Truck...Best of luck.

Dean
 
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