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As I'm heading south through the heat, desert , and sun, looping down through Nevada and Utah for a round trip of about 8,000 klm, I figured it would be best to go with synthetic oil for the mileage and heat factor. I picked up 5w50 Quaker State and my wrench told me to take it back. He has had 4 Wings brought in with clutch problems which were out of the norm and coincidently, all used Quaker State. I'm sure that our Petroleum Engineer Gurus may have more techno info.

For the Canadian boys, Canadian Tire now sells Amsoil fully synthetic motorcycle oil, if you have a tendency to lean that way. With my limited knowledge as it is, judge your oil on the type of riding you do, where you do it, and how lazy you are with oil changes. There are all kinds of previous threads on this subject. You can definitely save lots of cash with fossil and regular changes, with no advantage to using synthetic. The only reason I am isbecause of the distance and the heat. (Damn I better have heat...nothing but rain in Manitoba)

Kyle

I apologize to the Castrol users as indicated prior to this edit. Faux-pas:doh:
 

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Kyle,

Not to start another oil war on here :cooldevil:, but I have been using Mobile 1 Synthetic 15-50wt. for over a year now (approx 15K miles) without any problems. Clutch or otherwise. Shifts smoother too! :clapper:

Bob :11grey:
 

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I just changed to Mobil 1 MX4T 10w40. It's a fairly new Mobil 1 made for motorcycles. It may be imagination, but it sure seems to shift with less clunk. Only had it in for a couple of hundred miles. Pricey though. $10.00 qt. But like Winger said. Let's not start another war. To each their own. I just happen to prefer using the best stuff I can get, in my F250, lawnmowers, and my Wing. I even use synthetic 2 cycle oil for my chain saw and weed whacker. (i've got lots of weeds). :clapper::waving:
 

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My wrench is also a fan of synthetic Mobil,and Castrol, and I have used both in the past on my 1100 which is in around 400,000klm until I swapped motors because of a blown cam bearing that shredded my belts. But since he's seen these incidents with the Quaker State, it has been struck off his list. The Amsoil synthetic 0-40 does specify for wet clutches and is $9 a quart. As stated in a previous thread by one of our Petroleum Engineers,there is no advantage to using synthetic under normal conditions with regular timely oil changes. I'm using the synthetic because of the distance and the heat, as I do not want to do an oil change on the trip. With the price of this stuff, when I do an oil change on the bike, I think I'll throw the old oil into my freakin lawnmower!!!!!

Kyle
 

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guys, the main advantage synthetic has over fossil is the ability to resist breakdown. Or in another manner, how long it functions as an oil, or its lubricity. Synthetics last much longer than fossil. beyond that, I wont go into which synthetic, or why. But the deal is about duration. If your engine is unhappy, and develops rich or lean conditions which would cause your oil to become acidic (sp?) that will affect ANY oil. Always keep this in mind. syth offers little advantage to an ill or leaking engine :rollingeyes:eek:ver fossil oils.
 

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Hey Kyle!

If you come this far south, I'll change your oil for you! :weightlifter:

I'm only 5 hours past Lost Wages errr Las Vegas! 5 milesfrom Mexico.:waving:

Bob


P.S. You would also get your HEAT requirement satisfied!
 

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Hi Kyle, over the last three years, I have used Amsoil and Mobil One. The only complaint I have with either is the price, but then I don't like to change oil and here 100 degree summers are the norm.
 

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avnstevewrote
guys, the main advantage synthetic has over fossil is the ability to resist breakdown. Or in another manner, how long it functions as an oil, or its lubricity. Synthetics last much longer than fossil
Exactly!!!!!....with fossil you will change more frequently, therefore there may not be an advantage to synthetic for regular riding. e.g. $40.00 for a synthetic oil change compared to $8.00 - $10.00 for a fossil oil change. Therefore, you could do a fossil change 4-5 times to equal one synthetic change.

For fossil, you figure 4,000klm for an oil change and most probably put on more klm than that before a change, regardless, that would mean you would put on 16,000 - 20,000 klm before you would do a synthetic change? That's a lot of klm's between oil changes to break even!!!! I've heard that synthetic should be good up to around 10,000klm before a change. Once again ....my opinion....depends on what you're doing to run synthetic. It definitely has its place. If you don't like doing quicker changes and don't mind spending the money...run synthetic. If you don't mind doing oil changes...save the money. My situation, its a long trip and I don't want to spend time doing an oil change on the road. After the trip, I'll probably go back to fossil. I will admit, I was a strong advocate for synthetic with my 1100, but our petroleum gurus put this bug in me about more frequent changes with fossil is not a detriment to our machines over using synthetic. Now if someone in the "know" tells me that the fossil under regular driving conditions will break down horribly within 4-5,000 klm, maybe I'll go back. Just stay away from Quacker State synthertic (mis-spelling was intentional Redwing)

Kyle
 

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jackjohn wrote
Hi Kyle, over the last three years, I have used Amsoil and Mobil One. The only complaint I have with either is the price, but then I don't like to change oil and here 100 degree summers are the norm.
Jackjohn.....that is warm. Touring the southern States as much as I have, I am well aware of the heat (love the desert) and the humidity (the gulf coast is a little much) and that is the reason I originally went to synthetic. And whenever I'm going to tour, I will continue to use it. But I believe for my daily and weekend putts around town and back and forth to work, I might as well save the money, as I do not mind doing oil changes.

Kyle
 

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Kyle,

I still change my oil every 3K-5K miles. The oil would last much farther than that without breaking down but thats not the only reason to change oil. I feel the benefits of changing the oil often to keep the wear metals and dirt from building up and causing damage is a priority over how long the oil will go before breaking down. The area surrounding Yuma is all agriculture or open desertand theair around here is full of dust all the time! Ground temps are in excess of 120 deg F. more often than I like to think about. I'm probably wasting money, but the bike does seem to shift better with the Mobile 1 and I have heard and read so many good things about it that I have changed all my vehicles over to it. I figure that at worst I have wasted a few $.

The single most important thing is to CHANGE YOUR OIL OFTEN, no mater what type of oil you use!

Bob:11grey:

I promised myself I wouldn't get into another oil discussion! Oh well.............
 

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AZ wrote
I promised myself I wouldn't get into another oil discussion! Oh well
UUUGGGHHHH....I know what you mean!!!!!
 

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Kyle wrote:
As I'm heading south through the heat, desert , and sun, looping down through Nevada and Utah for a round trip of about 8,000 klm, I figured it would be best to go with synthetic oil for the mileage and heat factor. I picked up 5w50 Quaker State and my wrench told me to take it back. He has had 4 Wings brought in with clutch problems which were out of the norm and coincidently, all used Quaker State. I'm sure that our Petroleum Engineer Gurus may have more techno info.

For the Canadian boys, Canadian Tire now sells Amsoil fully synthetic motorcycle oil, if you have a tendency to lean that way. With my limited knowledge as it is, judge your oil on the type of riding you do, where you do it, and how lazy you are with oil changes. There are all kinds of previous threads on this subject. You can definitely save lots of cash with fossil and regular changes, with no advantage to using synthetic. The only reason I am isbecause of the distance and the heat. (Damn I better have heat...nothing but rain in Manitoba)
Kyle, the desert heat really shouldn't be a big factor in your oil choice as your bike is water cooled. Any engine temperature that's high enoughto really effect your oil's life or oiling ability will have the water boiled out of your cooling system long before it effects your oil. Now on an (air cooled motorcycle) that is a different situation as an air cooled bike is also oil cooled & high ambient temps are hard on engine oil.

With a trip of 8000 Km a synthetic oil would be a good choice as most synthetics are very resistant to oil shearing & in a trip that long conventional Dino 10W40 oil could become as low as 10W20 due to oil shearingthrough the trans gears.

Now on the oil choice?.. I wouldn't dream of recommending an oil brand to you as that should be chosen by you based on your needs & expected usage. You did mention Amsoil & that is a fine M/C oil that is close to the top on most comprehensive oil rating charts.

One thing you might want to keep in mind is the availability of your oil choice while on the road. Some of the better rated M/C oils are not stocked in a lot of areas or in common fuel stop areas so you would probably have to mix brands or even types if oil is needed while traveling. In my personal choice of bike motor oil's, availability while traveling is a big factor I use when determining my oil choice.

With a proper choice of oil you should be able to complete your trip with no related issues or excess oil thinning due to shearing. For availability some of the Diesel rated synthetics (15W40) are a good choice as they are available in most truck stops.

Twisty
 

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Twisty wrote
You did mention Amsoil & that is a fine M/C oil that is close to the top on most comprehensive oil rating charts.
I did choose Amsoil for this occasion as I have a bro-in-law that calls it liquid gold and worth every penny, and there are quite a few pennies in one quart, and for the fact of the distance I'm planning on running without a change. I'm not asking what your choice is, but I'm interested in hearing what other oils are listed on this comprehensive chart. For the most part we hear of using Mobil, and Castrol synthetics. Do you feel there is an advantage to use synthetic all the time, compared to using fossil with more frequent oil changes due to shearing? Where does the alleged problem of synthetic Quaker State fit in this equation? How much of a concern is mixing different brands with variances in weight? As in, I'll start off with 0-40 Amsoil and find I'll have to add a quart 15-50 Mobil synthetic at mile 1,000 and may have to add 10-40 Castrol Dino at mile 2,000? I apologize Twisty, I've thrown a lot at you here. My 96 is new to me, and the previous owner says he doesn't burn a drop between oil changes, but he changes his oil every 3-4,000 klm, so I'm not sure what kind of consumption rate to expect on a trip.

Kyle
 

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apologies to Twisty is I steal your thunder, but as a general rule, varying your oil content by mixing dino and synth, and/or differing viscosities is not a good idea. Remember that the viscosity will change if you use different viscosities, you'll have to do the math to figure what vis you are actually running, so for peace of mind and simplicity I would only use one. I would be willing to mix it up if I were in a pinch because any oil is better than dry! If you use "amsoil" and a particular viscosity, try your best to keep it that way. I advise it based on my training as a helicopter mechanic, but turbine engines can be REALLY finicky about their oil. Either carry some with you (ugh!) or I can get you a list of distributors along your route of travel so that if you do need it, you'll know the closest place to get some. Amsoil is not rare in the US, and is becoming more common everywhere. You may notice the prices vary by region. You can easily get it where you are going or along the way. PM me and I'll see what I can do for you.
 

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Kyle wrote:
Twisty wrote
You did mention Amsoil & that is a fine M/C oil that is close to the top on most comprehensive oil rating charts.
(1)-I'm planning on running without a change.
(2)-I'm not asking what your choice is, but I'm interested in hearing what other oils are listed on this comprehensive chart.
(3)-For the most part we hear of using Mobil, and Castrol synthetics. Do you feel there is an advantage to use synthetic all the time, compared to using fossil with more frequent oil changes due to shearing?
(4)-Where does the alleged problem of synthetic Quaker State fit in this equation?
(5)-How much of a concern is mixing different brands with variances in weight? As in, I'll start off with 0-40 Amsoil and find I'll have to add a quart 15-50 Mobil synthetic at mile 1,000 and may have to add 10-40 Castrol Dino at mile 2,000?
(6)-I apologize Twisty, I've thrown a lot at you here. My 96 is new to me, and the previous owner says he doesn't burn a drop between oil changes, but he changes his oil every 3-4,000 klm, so I'm not sure what kind of consumption rate to expect on a trip.
Kyle, you ask some very valid questions..

(1)-You should easily be able to go 8,000K on a good synthetic oil without a change if you don't have any overheating or take in any water.

(2)-That really depends on your personal usage, type of riding you do, what is most important to you, what you expect out of an oil. Probably at the top of most weighted lists would be the Redline oil's, followed by possibly Mobil 1 (M/C) or a 20W50 Amsoil. It really depends on what part of the oil rating is most important.. There really is no BEST oil that will cover all categories without slightly dropping in other categories. Plus, the best oil in the world isn't any good if you can't always find it. In picking my personal M/C oil I include cold weather riding & start-ups, resistance to shearing, how well it maintains it's base viscosity, cold pour point, resistance to acid formation, amount of Molybdenum in the oil , availability, cost, seal preservation.

(3)- Yes there are some distinct advantages to using a GOOD SYNTHETIC oil, that becomes less of a factor as the oil change interval is decreased. One big advantage is the oil shearing factor, you just can't beat a PAO type synthetic for that point. Another advantage is allowing a slightly thicker oil to be used for hot engine protection & still allowing great cold start up protection (Dino oils just can't compair here).

(4)-I really can't answer that without doing some research using available oil spec data. The thing you MUST remember is: not all synthetic oil's are true synthetic. Because of recent oil rulings any oil that can meet a basic synthetic spec can be sold as a synthetic oil. There are a lot of marked synthetic oil's that are just a little higher refined Dino oil that meets synthetic specs. You really need to do your homework to determine if the oil you choose is the best foryour application. One thing that is a good indicator is PRICE, good quality PAO synthetics are not cheap to produce so if you find a synthetic oil that is priced way lower that the good PAO synthetics it is probably just a highly refined Dino oil that meets synthetic specs.

(5)-In the old days mixing synthetic oils was a real crap shoot. Today there is a lot of work put into making oils compatible with others. The real problem still exists in the additive packages, not all oil additives are compatible with each other. They are tested enough to not do any immediate harm but certain additivesinbrand A oilcan lower the effectiveness of the additives in brand B oil. In my opinion you should try to not mix brands if at all possible. Mixing weights in not so important & in some cases can be beneficial (especially in the gear oils).-- Do some research before using any 0W40 engine oil, in most cases that is a auto type "Energy Rated" oil & that is usually not a very good choice for a motorcycle oil. One good rule of thumb is to turn the oil container around, on the back will be a circle, the top of that circle will have the words API service, if the lower part of that circle is blank then it is PROBABLY suitable for wet clutch motorcycle usage. If it contains the words "Energy Conserving" then is probably contains Moly & that is probably not a good choice for a wet clutch application.

(6)-No problem.....Twisty
 

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Silly me, steal Twisty's thunder? How could I even think that!



Great answer Twisty, that helps me too!



thanks
 

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Twisty wrote and wrote very well by the way
Do some research before using any 0W40 engine oil, in most cases that is a auto type "Energy Rated" oil & that is usually not a very good choice for a motorcycle oil.
The AMSOIL 0w-40 I bought is rated for motorcycles and has neat acronyms like API SL, SJ, SH, CF - JASO MA .... Also states -Replaces 0w-40,5w-30, 10w-30, 10w-40 for use in Yamaha Suzuki, Honda, Mercury, Kawasaki, Artic Cat, Polaris, Nissan, and Bomardier motors and transmissions. Safe in wet or dry sumps. Also says - for four stroke ATV's outboard motors, snowmobiles and motorcycles. Recommended for use with clutch plates in ATV's and motorcycle transmissions powered by 2-stroke and 4-strike engines.

Does that hit all the marks Twisty?

Kyle

Let me know asI haven't put it in the bike yet! Price wise ...it hits your mark for expensive....
 

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I can sense from the posts that this subject has been brought up in the past but I have aquick question about oils. Can older bikes (84 Aspencade) beswitched over to synthetics or should a bike this age (only 31000 miles) stay with fossil oil? Worried about the wet clutch slipping with synthetics. Thanks
 

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Switched my 85 Aspencade to Amsoil 10/ 40 for motorcycles about 6 years ago, the bikehad never run better. I am told that Amsoil is a true 100% synthetic. The other problem with the long change interval of synthetic oil is the oil may be fine to double the change interval but the filter can only hold so much crap before it starts to break down. I use to change my bike at 6-7 000 Km, more because of the filter, as the oil at this point was still in pretty good shape and relatively clean. but the filter was a little worse for wear. Good Luck Have a great trip Kyle, I look forward to some interesting stories when you get back. Your MOJO bag should weigh about 300lbs by the time you return. :D:D
 

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Thanks Goldwinger. That is what I'm hearing....keep the oil and do regular oil filter changes. A friend has indicate, when you change a filter, trap the oil and have it tested. It's a trucker thing and we would know the kind of miles they put on.
 
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