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Hi all,

I am having hard starts on my 1100. When cold (well, on first starts after sitting for an hour or more), I hit the switch and the starter usually sort of grunts the first few times, then kicks over just enough to start the bike. The battery is good (12V or better when off), the stator charges at around 14V (on the factory meter) when cruising at about 3k rpm, so I figure that it's either the starter or the solenoid. I know I can short across the solenoid leads, but exactly how do I do that? I mean, I suppose I could use a pair of pliers, but isn't that going to shock the snot out of me? Are there any better suggestions?

If you don't think it's a sollyor starter problem, what else could it be?

Jack
 

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Hi jsmith24, when I had this problem on my 1200 a few years ago, rather than use pliers or a shorting strap I used a car type solenoid from an old mini to prove point, It wired in easily and was loads safer as you still had the use of the starter button.



cheers

welsh winger
 

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Doesn't sound like a solenoid problem. Could be worn starter bushing causing the armature to drag slightly or may be brushes that are worn and not contacting fully or a bad internal ground in the starter. Could be that someone has spun the stud where the cable is attached on the starter housingbecause they didn't use a wrench to hold the nut behind the cable. This may be causing shorting.

Remove the starter and go through it carefully, clean and lubricateand let us know what you discover.

Vic
 

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Thanks for the input, fellows. If it WERE the solenoid, can that expensive little bugger be permanently replaced with a cheaper automotive one?

Oh wow...I may have just had an epiphany. The starter seemed to work just fine a few weeks back, right before I decided to clean all the hidden areas of the bike. I washed under the seat pan, the engine, AND the battery area. I didn't use a hose, just a garden spray bottle (the pressurized kind), and got the battery area failry wet. Is it possible that I soaked the solenoid to the point of developing a problem?

If it IS the starter, what sort of cost am I looking at to refurbish it? What supplies will I need in advance?

Many thanks, as always,

Jack
 

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jsmith24 wrote:
Hi all,

I am having hard starts on my 1100. When cold (well, on first starts after sitting for an hour or more), I hit the switch and the starter usually sort of grunts the first few times, then kicks over just enough to start the bike. The battery is good (12V or better when off), the stator charges at around 14V (on the factory meter) when cruising at about 3k rpm, so I figure that it's either the starter or the solenoid. I know I can short across the solenoid leads, but exactly how do I do that? I mean, I suppose I could use a pair of pliers, but isn't that going to shock the snot out of me? Are there any better suggestions?

If you don't think it's a sollyor starter problem, what else could it be?
Jack, fist, that isn't a solenoid it is a starter relay. A solenoid moves something like a starter drive or a lever. (no big deal just a detail)

OK, now on testing your starter by by-passing that little magnetic thingie (the relay).

That's a simple task, first, MAKE DARN SURE YOUR BIKE IS IN NEUTRAL or it will tend to run away when you jumper the starter. Then, simply run a large gauge jumper wire (something like a #6ga. or #4ga. ) wire from the battery's positive post to the starter's power post. If the starter is good it should respond & turn the engine over.

Basically, when you turn the ign switch on & press the start button all it does is energize the starter relay & that hooks the battery positive post cableto the large cable running to the starter's power post. (as simple as that).
I am having hard starts on my 1100. When cold (well, on first starts after sitting for an hour or more), I hit the switch and the starter usually sort of grunts the first few times, then kicks over just enough to start the bike.
That sounds more like a dragging starter or ignition timing problem than a relay problem. First thing to try when it acts up again is to try cranking it with the handlebarkill switch turned off, if it then cranks good you probably have an ignition timing problem (too much cranking advance). If it still acts up & won't turn over good you probably have an internal starter problem like worn brushes, or worn bushing, ora poor internal ground, or poor internal brush plate ground.

Those 1100's were noted for internal connection problems in the starter that acted up when hot soaked.


Twisty
 

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Thanks, Twisty for the words of advice and the correction on my term(s). I knew the 1100 had problems with "hot starting", but since mine actually starts when hot, but not cold, I thought maybe it was something else.

I just tried turning it over with the kill swithch off....same thing, very sluggish. Stupid starter! Grrrr. :whip:

At any rate, thanks again, and I'll keep you all up to date.

Jack
 

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jsmith24,


If you need to, the starter is simple to pull and rebuild. Been there done that!:waving:

Bob:11grey:
 

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Hey, planned on pulling the starter, but danged if now I can't get the exhaust to drop. Once again, Grrr. :)



Jack
 

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jsmith24 wrote:
Thanks, Twisty for the words of advice and the correction on my term(s). I knew the 1100 had problems with "hot starting", but since mine actually starts when hot, but not cold, I thought maybe it was something else.

I just tried turning it over with the kill swithch off....same thing, very sluggish. Stupid starter! Grrrr. :whip:
Jack, it looks like I misunderstood your opening post. I saw that 1 hour sit time & just assumed it was a hot-soak problem. In re-reading it it looks like I didn't read it correctly the first pass.

While trouble cranking cold could still be a starter problem it is usually more likely a low battery problem. Starter problems usually show up more when hot.

You might try placing a voltmeter on the battery posts while cranking to see if you are dropping too much battery voltage during cold cranking. Maybe you have a sulfated battery or a draw on the electrical system while sitting.

Another thing to try is; placing a battery charger on the battery while the bike is parked, if it cranks better the next time you probably have a bad battery, or charging system problem.

Twisty
 

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jsmith24 wrote:
Oh wow...I may have just had an epiphany. The starter seemed to work just fine a few weeks back, right before I decided to clean all the hidden areas of the bike. I washed under the seat pan, the engine, AND the battery area. I didn't use a hose, just a garden spray bottle (the pressurized kind), and got the battery area failry wet. Is it possible that I soaked the solenoid to the point of developing a problem.
years ago I washed my 78 wing at a pressure car wash.... several weeks later the selenoid stuck in the start position... there I was trying to detach all the battery cables to stop the starter. fortunately it was still under warrenty and I told the parts man I had a bad selenoid:baffled::cooldevil::1000darkblue:
 

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Hi Jack,

there have been problems with sluggish starters in the past, but check your main fuse and connections are sound and the solonoid works first.

The sluggish starter can be caused by any of the following:

1/ a short between the brush-gear in the motor making contact with the casing

2/ The main +ve terminal has an insulating block under it, any paint or oil contamination will cause a short to the starter casinga good clean should sort it

3/ The main cause is the bushes/shims in the end of the armature have worn away so the armature moves back and forth inside the casing shorting the comutator to the case/earth

In any case the starter would have to come out and be stripped for investigation

Hope this helps, good luck
 

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Okay, I bypassed the relay (hot lead from battery right to starter lug), and got the same sluggish result. So the starter comes off this weekend.

Now, I've read all sorts of overhaul instructions, but if I need brushes or bushings, what have you, where can I go besides the old Honda shop? Any ideas for a complete rebuild/overhaul kit?

Thanks,

Jack
 

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jsmith24 wrote:
Okay, I bypassed the relay (hot lead from battery right to starter lug), and got the same sluggish result. So the starter comes off this weekend.

Now, I've read all sorts of overhaul instructions, but if I need brushes or bushings, what have you, where can I go besides the old Honda shop? Any ideas for a complete rebuild/overhaul kit?

Thanks,

Jack
If you have an automotive electrical shop anywhere around you that's where I'd start. They usually have a wide assortment of brushes and bearings. A bearing supply house can usually match any bearing you might need. There are several other sources on the net like the Bike Bandit and other vintage bike suppliers. Remember as many on this forum have mentioned to keep your bike on the sidestand when you pull the starter so as not to lose the chain and sprocket down the chute!
 

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That reminds me! Will I lose much oil when pulling the starter?

Jack
 

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jsmith24 wrote:
Okay, I bypassed the relay (hot lead from battery right to starter lug), and got the same sluggish result. So the starter comes off this weekend.

Now, I've read all sorts of overhaul instructions, but if I need brushes or bushings, what have you, where can I go besides the old Honda shop? Any ideas for a complete rebuild/overhaul kit?
Jack, before pulling that starter are you sure it's not a low or sulfated battery causing that slow cranking? Did you monitor the cranking voltage while it's acting up?

If you want a little more info on those starter problems try this web site. Lots of good starter info there.

http://wings.astcomm.net/electrical.html



Twisty
 
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