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Hi there! I was here recently with the question about the coolant into oil leaking and was adviced to change the water pump and the O-rings in the frontcase again (I had changed the O-ringswhen bought the bikebut I couldn't find the original ones so I used as nearliest sizes as I could find over here, however the coolant still leaks into the oil). This time I'll do my best to get the original factory O-rings and will change them. However, in the repair manual I found that the core plugs inside the cylinder head(s) can also cause this problem. By the manual, the solution would be to remove the plugs, apply some sealant on their threads and screw them back in. However, to get the accessto these plugs I would have to remove the timing belts, camshafts, etc. A lot of job. On the other side, I have read a lot of topics about the coolant into oil leaking on this forum and nobody ever mentioned that the core plugs could cause this. Theusually mentionedcauses were either the water pump/front case seals or the blownhead gaskets. So I wanted to ask you chaps, when I change the O-rings,would it be a good idea to re-seal that core plugs as well or it is just wasting of time?

Thanks! Alex
 

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ture the core pluges are a possible leak to the water jacktes . but i have never heard of one leaking . anyone else hear of one leaking ??? or loose ????
 

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Probably possible, but never heard of it happening (the core plugs).. most likely something to do with the orings in the front cover, water pump or the waterpump seals themselves.. Hard to guess.. most likely have to take it all off, clean and replace seals, and mabe the waterpump.... but another possible culprit could be a head gasket...
 

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I hope that it's not a head gasket as I do not have a symptoms like an extra clean spark plug or the white smoke from exausts. However, there is some blue-white smoke while the engine is cold, but it will completely disappear as the engine warms up, after about 15 mins of iddling or a few kilometers of riding. After that there is no any visible smoke from the exausts. Ifa head gasket was blown, there should be the permanent white smoke from the exaust, no matter if the engine is cold or warm, am I right?
 

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If the core plugs are leaking you should be able to see it by just removing the valve covers and look for a clean streak running down the head from the plugs or coolant at the bottom.
 

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The most likely time for a plug to leak is when they are new. Over time corrosion seal them up tight. I have installed plugs that seep for a few days, only to seal themselves and never leak again. The exception would be a plug that has rusted through. It is easy to check. Take off the valve covers and poke at the plugs with a pick or screw driver to assure they are solid.
The weep hole on the water pump is open???
Any signs of oil in the coolant???
Have you had the front (cover) transmission cover off??
 

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redwing52 wrote:
The weep hole on the water pump is open???
Any signs of oil in the coolant???
The weep hole is open now. When I bought the bike the hole was cloged up with silicone. I took down the frontcover and dismantled and repaired the water pump and changed the orings (but not using the original ones) and, of course, cleaned up the weep hole. Despite all my work the oil level noticableraises again, butthere is no constant leakage out from the weep hole, just a rare few drops sometimes, soI don't think that the coolant comes into oil through the pump. But maybe I am wrong.I don't know about the oil in coolant, I will have to drain the coolant and search for any oil in it.
 

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Another thing you could try is put the bike on the center stand so it is straight up and down. Then pressurize the cooling system with regulated shop air over night. With the valve covers off you might see evidence of the leak if it is on the top end. I have seen water weep up headbolt threads on cars and trucks. Is the leak into the oil a lot??? Does the oil turn tan and creamy??

Edit: Second thought. You could drain every drop of oil possible out of the bike. Then leave the drain plug out of the motor also overnight. Does the coolant come out the oil plug drain? Another clue! Good luck..
 

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The New Owner wrote:
I hope that it's not a head gasket ....... Ifa head gasket was blown, there should be the permanent white smoke from the exaust, no matter if the engine is cold or warm, am I right?
I hope not too... and don't get alarmed yet... that was just a passing remark as a possibility.. since you most recently worked on the front cover, I'd forget about head gasket for now.. but the answer to your question, is "no".. coolant can still get to the oil without having to leave evidence at a plug or as steam at the exhaust.. and even if steam at the exhaust, it might be much worse at startup.
 

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sandiegobrass wrote:
.. but the answer to your question, is "no".. coolant can still get to the oil without having to leave evidence at a plug or as steam at the exhaust.. and even if steam at the exhaust, it might be much worse at startup.
I must say that I reallydidn't know that. There is a lot of smokeat startup on my bike. In first few minutes it is mostly blue, and sometimes there isreally much of it from both the exausts.My center stand is broken so the bike is parked onits side stand and I heared that it can cause some oil to pour into the cylinders and blue smokeat startup, but I also heared thatthe smoke should disappear within minute!In first time I wasworried if the piston rings were worn, but when I measured the compression the results were from 10 up to 10.6 bar. So, no cylinder was under 10 and the biggest split was 0.6 bar and the manual says that everything from 10 to 12 and with the split less then 1 bar is good. So, I stoped worrying about the piston rings, asI thought that if theywere bad that would affect the compression and theblue smoke would be permanent(orwas I wrong again???) Anyway, after few minutes of idling, the smoke starts to pale and its color turns into some blue-white hue, to disappear later. But now I considered something: in case that the head gasket(s) is blown, is it possible that not only the coolant, but alsothe oil (that flows through the passageson the gakset) would find its way to the cylinder and cause that extreme blue smokeat startup? Also to be said,when I remove the hose that goes from the radiator into the coolant reserve tank out of the tank and plug it with my finger while the engine is runing, then remove the finger after few seconds, there is some noticable pressure that blows out of the hose, even when the engine is cold (just after starting). The pressure will be higher if open the throttle. A possible sign of blown head gasket?
redwing52: when I finishedthe mentioned(unsuccesfull) repair of the cooling system, I poured in the new oil. I hadn't drained it since then, so I don't know if it became milky, but its level raised for about one inch on the control screen in last three months. The coolant level droped at the same time, so I am pretty sure that the coolant is in the oil. My center stand is broken and I don't havea compressor so I can't try the first way you described, but I will definitely try the second one when I drain the oil.
I don't know....maybe the best way would be to change all the orings inside the front case and the water pump with the original new ones firstand see if that will stop the leaking. If not then to focus on the head gaskets....

Thank you a lot my friends! Alex
 

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The New Owner wrote:
Also to be said,when I remove the hose that goes from the radiator into the coolant reserve tank out of the tank and plug it with my finger while the engine is runing, then remove the finger after few seconds, there is some noticable pressure that blows out of the hose, even when the engine is cold (just after starting). The pressure will be higher if open the throttle. A possible sign of blown head gasket?
Gas bubbling up from the radiator through the coolant reservoir is a pretty good sign that there is a head gasket problem... particularly when you say the pressure is higher when you open th throttle...
 

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Sounds to me like everything revolves around the water pump housing. I'd get another gasket set and remove and replace.

When you have the water pump out look carefully at the hole in the bottom of the pump itself to see if there is anything getting past the seal inside the pump. It this is dry ( or relatively so ) ie: no oil/antifreeze., then you can assume that the pump is not the cause of the leak.

My bet is that one of the O rings on the water jacket portion of the front cover is not seating properly. This would allow water into the oil.
 

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I will have to pay attention on both the head gaskets and the orings, as I wouldn't be very surprised if the both things are bad! Especially because of that pressure in the cooling system that indicates the blown head gasket as sandiegobrass said....I'll also check the core plugs as redwing52 said, just to be sure.

Thanks, Alex
 

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I am confused!!! Last night I drained the oil out of the engine. I expected to see a lot of "creamy" substance inside, but no! I couldn't find any visible sign of contamination. The oil looks pretty good, it has a uniform dark color and there is no any separated liquid inside it. On the other side, I am sure that the oil level was raising before. When I poured in the new oil in the engine, about three months ago, I marked its level with a marker. After a few days I checked up again and saw that the level had raised a little bit. Then it continued with raising so when I checked it up after a month or so it was about an inch above the previous mark. As my center stand is broken, when I waschecking the oil level I always had someone sitting on the bike and holding a plumb restedagainst the false tank, so the bike was always perfectly horizontal. But last night, before I drained the oil, I checked the level again on the same way, to see that the level had dropped down for about 1/4 of inch or even more! Is it possible that the weather conditions (higher or lower air temperature) could cause the oil level to vary so much (as I was always checking the level with the cold engine)???I remember when I was changing the oillast time, the old oil had a brown, milky substance in it, but then the weep hole on the water pump was cloged up by the previous owner. But now the oil realy looks fine. It only smells like gasoline a little bit. I drained the oil with the cold engine, without starting it. Could that make any difference? As I told, I am really confused. I screwed the drain plug back in, so for a few days I'll remove it again to see if any liquid will go out.

Alex
 

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Alex, you could have a carburetor flooding over and getting fuel in the oil instead of coolant which would raise the level and as it evaporates it would lower the oil level. Not a good thing to have gasoline in the oil either, it makes it thin and a little abrasive. Do you turn off the fuel valve when parked? That is a good plan to leave the oil out and check later for more draining out, it could tell you something.
 

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Another redneck trick to check for coolant in your exhaust is simply to smell it. If it has antifreeze in it there will be a distinct sweet smell. You can just hold your hand over the tailpipe and let it get damp from the heavy smoke at startup, then sniff your palm. Rather than sucking up a whole lungful of noxious fumes.
 

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I always turn the fuel valve off when turn off the engine, that's my habit since I rode my first bike. But maybe there is another thing: since I bought the bike it never worked well on startup, only two cylinders would work for afirst few minutes. I thought that it was normal so didn't pay attention on that. However, about two months ago (well after changing the oil) the thing got worse, so the engine would workterrible even when warms up. Than I finally removed the spark plugs and tested them to see that two of them had abroken insulation and sparked all over the head of the plug! I changed all the plugs and the engine worked normal again. However, I ran the engine with the two bad plugs for a while after changing the oil. Is it possible that the unburnt fuel, caused by the bad plugs, could get into the oil and raise its level so much? And for the head gasket testing, I will try everything about it as soon as Istart the engine again. I'll also drain the coolant to see if there is any oil in it.

Thanks a lot, Alex
 

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INPUT: No oil in coolant, only something what looked like a greasy stains on the very top of the coolant, but those stains were thick maybe 1/100 of millimetre, or evenless. If they came from the oil, that would be a few drops of oil on the whole amount of coolant. Maybe the stains were not from theoil at all, but from the anti freeze itself, I'm not sure. Yesterday I've poured the oil and the coolant back in the bike, to be able to start the engine and do some more head gasket tests. My coolant reserve tank is so muddy (because of the aging or what) that I can barely see the coolant level when point a bright light into the tank's side, so it would be impossible to see any bubbles. So I tried something else. I rode the bike for a while until the engine warmed up, and then looked into the reserve tank's cap (you now there is a short, transparent plastic pipe on the top of the cap, which is connectedto the radiator by the hose). I expected to see the coolant flowing through that pipe, but what I saw was the air gap. Then I removed the cap out from the res. tanktogether with the hose that goes down from the capinto the tank. I've put that hose in the glass of clean water and waited for a while (the engine was running). After a few minutes the bubbles started coming out from the hose, then it stopped bubbling and the coolant (green color) started coming out, then again some bubbles after a while. I finished with the coolant going out again. Today I tried a method that I found on the forum, posted by Sandiegobrass in past. I attached a long hose to the res. tank's ventilation. I also took a bottle of clean water and fixed it on the handlebar so I could see it during the ride. I put the other end of the hose into the bottle with water. Sandiego wrote that it bubbled when going up the hill on his bike. In my case, there were some bubbles while the engine was warming up, which should be normal as the expanded coolant was coming from the radiator andfilling the tank, so the air from the tank had to go out through the ventilation. However, when the engine warmed up to the working temp. (the fan came on and off), the bubbles dissapeared. I went up the hill several times, but no bubbling. I just thought that the head gasketswere OK, but than another thing happened. When I came back home, the engine was still idling,then it suddenly stoped working. I started it but itwokedonly ontwo cylindersmaking some abnormal noiseand a large amount of a wet, white smoke appeared from the left hand exhaust pipe:shock:. I put mypalm in the smokeahead ofthe pipe and my palm became wet in a few moments, but it smelled likea gasoline. I stopped the engine and restarted it again, but now the smoke dissapeared as sudden as it appearedand the engine worked normal again. SoI am totally confused. :(Ablownhead gasket or something else???

Oh, it looks like the oil level raises a little bit again, but it's too early to say. If it is the gasoline that comes into the oil, could it maybe come through the possibly bad fuel pump membrane (I always turn the fuel valve off when stop the engine)?

Thanks chaps, Alex
 

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The New Owner wrote:
INPUT:....I put mypalm in the smokeahead ofthe pipe and my palm became wet in a few moments, but it smelled likea gasoline. I stopped the engine and restarted it again, but now the smoke dissapeared as sudden as it appearedand the engine worked normal again. SoI am totally confused. :(Ablownhead gasket or something else???

Oh, it looks like the oil level raises a little bit again, but it's too early to say. If it is the gasoline that comes into the oil, could it maybe come through the possibly bad fuel pump membrane (I always turn the fuel valve off when stop the engine)?

Thanks chaps, Alex
You have done pretty thorough testing to check the head gasket, and I'd say at this point, it sounds like it is something else.... I think it is possilbe that gas is leaking from the carburators making it richand/orinto the oil which would probably be the float levels or the float valve... You say you turn off the petcock, but keep in mind that sometimes the petcock leaks. You can get kits to rebuild that also. like you say, it could also be fuel pump, but I'd check the petcock first.... and of course, check/fix the leaking float needle valves
 

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I would check for gas entering the oil through leaking floats in the carbs, I've had it happen on several dirt bikes over the years, not an uncommon problem.
 
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