Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,931 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
imported post

You may recall that I have been asking some questions about my engine and vibrations and valve clatter, etc. Well, the other day I went for a ride with another guy on an 84 Aspy, and his engine just sounded different than mine(better). So I decided to make up some vacuum guages and do a carb sync. While I had the lower stuff off, I decided to take a peek at the timing belts(even though I had spoken with the wrench who had quite recently installed them) just to check if the tension was right because I could hear a whine at certain RPM's

When I got the covers off, to my great surprise, I saw that the left cam pulley was off by one tooth. I wish I had taken a pic. I had removed the flywheel peep hole cover and set the mark on the index first. The right(most difficult to set) was right on the mark but the left one was definitely one tooth late. I rotated a few more times to be sure--it stayed one tooth late. Sooooo, I removed the idler/adjuster/tensioner/whatever else you wish to call it(lol) and repositioned the cam pulley to correct, and then went to the other side and soon found out about the cam pulley advancing as the belt tension is removed-no problem, you all had warned us many times-. I checked both idlers and they were good. So I reset the tensioner while holding the cam pulley in the correct position with a ratchet socket and then played a bit with the tension before I got it where I liked it-----one observation here, I think that the right side is hard to get correct for two reasons-the cam lobe load and the fact that the little spring on the tensioner must bear the weight of the whole tensioner whereas the other side has gravity helping it. So I little help is need to get the same tension as on the left belt. Perhaps the right side needs a slightly stronger spring.

Anyway, when I was happy, I manually rotated that sucker at least five times to be sure I was correct. It looked good after each 720 of the crank so I buttoned it up. Should I have put in new belts???? I didn't because I did not have them and I rather trust the guy who says he put them in recently--his attention to detail just sucked that day. Besides, I have a nice ride planned for this weekend and belts have to be ordered. The ones in there looked very nice--I know, I know, you can't tell--but you CAN--a bit.

I got it back to being able to run--I still plan to sync the carbs tomorrow-- so I hit the kill switch and bumped the starter till I had it around at least twice--no hits-- kill off and hit starter and she lit up nicely. First thing I noticed was it was a lot smoother and sounded just like my riding friends motor. It had a little deeper sound and a whole lot more snap to throttle twist. The vibration was mostly gone too. I have not ridden it but will tomorrow after it drinks the rest of the coolent and has had the carb sync check.

Sorry for the long post but it was the only way to tell my story. What, if any improvement should I expect????

Thanks for reading.

Hawker22
 

·
Postpubescent member
Joined
·
36,382 Posts
imported post

If you put the bike in gearwith the rear brake tied down when setting the belts it helps keep the valve springs from pushing the cam around. If the belts run nice and quiet without whistling sounds like you got it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,491 Posts
imported post

Hawker22 wrote:
You may recall that I have been asking some questions about my engine and vibrations and valve clatter, etc. Well, the other day I went for a ride with another guy on an 84 Aspy, and his engine just sounded different than mine(better). So I decided to make up some vacuum guages and do a carb sync. While I had the lower stuff off, I decided to take a peek at the timing belts(even though I had spoken with the wrench who had quite recently installed them) just to check if the tension was right because I could hear a whine at certain RPM's

When I got the covers off, to my great surprise, I saw that the left cam pulley was off by one tooth. I wish I had taken a pic. I had removed the flywheel peep hole cover and set the mark on the index first. The right(most difficult to set) was right on the mark but the left one was definitely one tooth late. I rotated a few more times to be sure--it stayed one tooth late. Sooooo, I removed the idler/adjuster/tensioner/whatever else you wish to call it(lol) and repositioned the cam pulley to correct, and then went to the other side and soon found out about the cam pulley advancing as the belt tension is removed-no problem, you all had warned us many times-. I checked both idlers and they were good. So I reset the tensioner while holding the cam pulley in the correct position with a ratchet socket and then played a bit with the tension before I got it where I liked it-----one observation here, I think that the right side is hard to get correct for two reasons-the cam lobe load and the fact that the little spring on the tensioner must bear the weight of the whole tensioner whereas the other side has gravity helping it. So I little help is need to get the same tension as on the left belt. Perhaps the right side needs a slightly stronger spring.

Anyway, when I was happy, I manually rotated that sucker at least five times to be sure I was correct. It looked good after each 720 of the crank so I buttoned it up. Should I have put in new belts???? I didn't because I did not have them and I rather trust the guy who says he put them in recently--his attention to detail just sucked that day. Besides, I have a nice ride planned for this weekend and belts have to be ordered. The ones in there looked very nice--I know, I know, you can't tell--but you CAN--a bit.

I got it back to being able to run--I still plan to sync the carbs tomorrow-- so I hit the kill switch and bumped the starter till I had it around at least twice--no hits-- kill off and hit starter and she lit up nicely. First thing I noticed was it was a lot smoother and sounded just like my riding friends motor. It had a little deeper sound and a whole lot more snap to throttle twist. The vibration was mostly gone too. I have not ridden it but will tomorrow after it drinks the rest of the coolent and has had the carb sync check.

Sorry for the long post but it was the only way to tell my story. What, if any improvement should I expect????

Thanks for reading.

Hawker22
Hawker22, glad you found your problem.. Let us know how it rides after your trip..

I know it's too late for this now but next time you you do the belt tension; after setting the L/H cam belt tension just lightly snug up the R/H belt tension, then just rotate the crankshaft one full revolution (that will put the cam gear marks straight down).. At that time the R/H belt will be easily& correctly adjustable as that takes the load off the R/H cam lobes & allows the R/H belt to be set as easily as the L/H was (no holding the cam with a wrench or locking down the engine)..

Twisty
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,931 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
imported post

Now I really should have thought of that, Twisty. It makes way too much sense. Next time. I still think that that little spring on the left side gets a bit overpowered by the gravity of it all and needs a bit of help.

Any tips on doing the carb sync that may not be in the book????

Hawker22
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,931 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
imported post

twisty wrote:
Hawker22 wrote:
You may recall that I have been asking some questions about my engine and vibrations and valve clatter, etc. Well, the other day I went for a ride with another guy on an 84 Aspy, and his engine just sounded different than mine(better). So I decided to make up some vacuum guages and do a carb sync. While I had the lower stuff off, I decided to take a peek at the timing belts(even though I had spoken with the wrench who had quite recently installed them) just to check if the tension was right because I could hear a whine at certain RPM's

When I got the covers off, to my great surprise, I saw that the left cam pulley was off by one tooth. I wish I had taken a pic. I had removed the flywheel peep hole cover and set the mark on the index first. The right(most difficult to set) was right on the mark but the left one was definitely one tooth late. I rotated a few more times to be sure--it stayed one tooth late. Sooooo, I removed the idler/adjuster/tensioner/whatever else you wish to call it(lol) and repositioned the cam pulley to correct, and then went to the other side and soon found out about the cam pulley advancing as the belt tension is removed-no problem, you all had warned us many times-. I checked both idlers and they were good. So I reset the tensioner while holding the cam pulley in the correct position with a ratchet socket and then played a bit with the tension before I got it where I liked it-----one observation here, I think that the right side is hard to get correct for two reasons-the cam lobe load and the fact that the little spring on the tensioner must bear the weight of the whole tensioner whereas the other side has gravity helping it. So I little help is need to get the same tension as on the left belt. Perhaps the right side needs a slightly stronger spring.

Anyway, when I was happy, I manually rotated that sucker at least five times to be sure I was correct. It looked good after each 720 of the crank so I buttoned it up. Should I have put in new belts???? I didn't because I did not have them and I rather trust the guy who says he put them in recently--his attention to detail just sucked that day. Besides, I have a nice ride planned for this weekend and belts have to be ordered. The ones in there looked very nice--I know, I know, you can't tell--but you CAN--a bit.

I got it back to being able to run--I still plan to sync the carbs tomorrow-- so I hit the kill switch and bumped the starter till I had it around at least twice--no hits-- kill off and hit starter and she lit up nicely. First thing I noticed was it was a lot smoother and sounded just like my riding friends motor. It had a little deeper sound and a whole lot more snap to throttle twist. The vibration was mostly gone too. I have not ridden it but will tomorrow after it drinks the rest of the coolent and has had the carb sync check.

Sorry for the long post but it was the only way to tell my story. What, if any improvement should I expect????

Thanks for reading.

Hawker22
Hawker22, glad you found your problem.. Let us know how it rides after your trip..

I know it's too late for this now but next time you you do the belt tension; after setting the L/H cam belt tension just lightly snug up the R/H belt tension, then just rotate the crankshaft one full revolution (that will put the cam gear marks straight down).. At that time the R/H belt will be easily& correctly adjustable as that takes the load off the R/H cam lobes & allows the R/H belt to be set as easily as the L/H was (no holding the cam with a wrench or locking down the engine)..

Twisty

Well, I just got back from a good road trip and I am happy to report that my bike seems to have about 10% more zip, is a bit smoother and the valves don't seem to be quite as noisy. The exhaust tone is nicer too. BUT, I still have a wee bit of belt whine. I WILL get it right next time. I sure am happy I decided to peek at the belts.
 

·
Postpubescent member
Joined
·
36,382 Posts
imported post

If you can hear them they're just a bit too tight, might slack off a bit with use but when my first belt job did that I couldn't stand it and had to get back at them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
588 Posts
imported post

When I did mine I got them a bit too tight and I got a whine in the upper rpm range. I decided to let it go for a bit and they must have strtched just a tad because I don't hear the whine anymore.
 

·
Senior Guru
Joined
·
3,589 Posts
imported post

Half a tooth off shouldn't make any difference at all, but a full tooth or 1.5 teeth off will affect running. As little as 3 teeth will see the vgalves hit pistons and you all know what that means.
 

·
Senior Guru
Joined
·
2,234 Posts
imported post

hockeydad33 wrote:
When I did mine I got them a bit too tight and I got a whine in the upper rpm range. I decided to let it go for a bit and they must have strtched just a tad because I don't hear the whine anymore.
Hockeydad, you should be aware that the belts don't do very much stretching by design, but, the cam and crank bearings can easily wear and create more belt clearance due to the extra pressure exerted on them because of the increased belt tension.

Vic
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,931 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
imported post

GWNorman wrote:
Half a tooth off shouldn't make any difference at all, but a full tooth or 1.5 teeth off will affect running. As little as 3 teeth will see the vgalves hit pistons and you all know what that means.

I am probably missing something here, but how can the timing be out by half a tooth?
 

·
Senior Guru
Joined
·
4,293 Posts
imported post

My LTD was maintained by a dealer, up to 72k, when I bought it. It didn't run good at all, the previous owner had it to that dealer several times, and they threw parts at it, but never corrected it. New map sensors, new crank sensors, new ecu, etc. So, the owner gave up, and sold it to me at a low price. It didn't run too bad down the freeway, but low rpm, it was real bad. I rode it 190 miles home, and the next day, decided to chk. the belts. Surprise!!!! Both very loose. The right was retarded 3 teeth. So, rebelted, and wa-lah. Instant success. (Well, almost)

Then I noted a knock upon start-up, cold, and found the center main loose (bolts) So, fixed that, then a week after that, the damned thing quit charging. Stator was fried. Didn't have enough sense to check it while it was apart. Pulled it back out, found out what the cost would be. Put it back together. Installed ext alt., and all's well. The only way to go. Since then, I've put another Interstate stator in, just for backup, using the LTD reg. I just leave the regulator unplugged.

Then I bought a 1500 with 34k miles. Decided to chk. the belts. So loose, they were hitting the covers! Got new ones, to put in one of these days. Moral of the story!!!! Check those belts!!!! Probably every 20k or so.
 

·
Postpubescent member
Joined
·
36,382 Posts
imported post

Hawker22 wrote:
GWNorman wrote:
Half a tooth off shouldn't make any difference at all, but a full tooth or 1.5 teeth off will affect running. As little as 3 teeth will see the vgalves hit pistons and you all know what that means.
I am probably missing something here, but how can the timing be out by half a tooth?
It's not uncommon to find that you can't get the new belts back exactly where the old ones were due to stretching with age. You can of course set them exactly if you use the engine timing marks, but if you just put the new ones on by locking the pulleys and changing the belts it's possible to have a little difference.If you think about it, the distance of a half tooth is less than an 1/8" and in a belt that long it's not a lot of stretch. In the case of my 1200 the belts had originally been correct but had stretched so they were 1/2 tooth off. Putting on the new belts brought it back to where it had been when the previous belts were new.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,931 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
imported post

Ahhh, I see what GWNorman is saying--the stretch of the belt alongits pulling length will eventually allow the cam pulley to become late, even though there was not a misalignment of the belt on initial installation. S0, with sufficient stretch, it could be late by half a tooth, or heaven forbid, a whole tooth.Go on. You don't suppose mine was a whole tooth stretched?? Naw, the other side was just fine and dead on. It was f------ed up in initial install. Besides, the belts were very close to correct tension and would have been quite loose if THAT were the case. Also, the slots on the adjusters were pretty much at there extreme outward limits, indicating new and unstretched belts

Thanks for clearing that up Paul.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top