Timing belt problems, not good

3587 Views 28 Replies 13 Participants Last post by axelwik, Nov 30, 2005

Coot

Discussion Starter · Jul 3, 2005

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I replaced the timing belts on my 81 gl1100. The #2-4 head pulley lined up perfect but the #1-3 headpulley wouldn't line upas well. Always looked half a tooth off. Started it today and heard a bad noise, remove the #1-3 head and big hole through the #3 piston. The exhaust valve had broken off but the cylinder didn't look too bad, a couple of pin head dings. Don't know what to do now but to start drinking. Be care full changing those belts. Mine were k&n replacements.

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AZWinger

· #2 · Jul 3, 2005

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Damn, thats a shame coot.:cooldevil: Sorry to read that.

A half tooth off isn't uncommon and shouldn't have been a problem. I suspect thevalve spring pressure caused the cam to turn a revolution so it was 180 degrees out.

Sounds like you arein for a major engine tear down.

I know it won't do you any good, but for anyone who doesn't know;

You should always turn the engine over a few times by hand with a wrench on the crank pulley, while listening for metal to metal sounds and feeling for any binding. Remove the spark plugs to make it easier.

Bob :11grey:

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Coot

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 3, 2005

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Yea it sucks, the pulley upindicators were both pointed up and the crank was on tds. I took off and put the #1-2 belt on at least 10 times trying to get the mark to point right on. I've pulled the motor and now the fun begins, will split the case tomorrow. I will need allot of help on this one. A good friend of mine is a Suzuki mech so I can get a little help from him. But I'm not going to be the one who puts the belts on this time. I need another beer, Coot

GWEddie

· #4 · Jul 4, 2005

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Coot, didn't you try to turn the engine by hand after you fitted the belts and before starting the engine? If you did and it turned without locking up, then it sounds like a belt slipped after you did start the engine. Half a tooth off is not unusual for a Wing, I just can't see how half a tooth off would do this.

Coot

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 4, 2005

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OK, here is what happened. the #2/4 cam pulley has two raised marks, 180 apart and a arrow pointed to the right timing mark. The #1/3 cam pulley was different in several ways. It doesn't have the round holes in the pulley and it alsohas two marks that were indented instead of being raisedand there was no arrow. It does havesmall raised marks two teeth clockwise from the indented marks,whichis the correct timing mark. If you look at the two pulleys the indented marks and the raised marks look the same. Maybe I need more light.
I pulled the motor apart today to see the damage. The #1/3 head is destroyed along with the #3 piston and rod. The bore was slightly dinged. I'm going to bore it out .50 and putnew pistons in and replace all the bearings. If anyone has a rod and right head they need to get rid of let me know.I also need some info on the bearing replacement colors, Thanks Coot

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Silicon Sam

· #6 · Jul 4, 2005

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My mantra is take the timing belts off and put them back on with the pulleys in the EXACT same position. Figure if it ran with the old belts, it'll run with the new ones. Just mark the pulleys before you take off the old belts, and have at it.

Raymond

Coot

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 4, 2005

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I've been rebuilding this bike for a couple of years. Took every piece off and powder coated them, new paint, brakes, chrome, not a bit of rust on it. I removed the belts a year ago and just got the time to put the carbs and belts on back on. I learned allot, especially in the last couple of days. I know now and it's going to cost me anothergrand at the least and to top it off the motor was in great shape.The bores looked great except for the one I screwed up. Live and learn, Coot

ccsailor

· #8 · Jul 4, 2005

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why don't you just buy a used engine off Ebay or one of theparts guys saves you a lot of grief A 1200 engine complete and garr. just went for $215 boy was I tempted If it didn't cost as much to ship here I would have bought it for a spare

Neil

Honda Goldwing GL1100 GL 1100 1000 Engine

$107.50

9
7d06h16m

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exavid

· #9 · Jul 5, 2005

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Silicon Sam wrote:

My mantra is take the timing belts off and put them back on with the pulleys in the EXACT same position. Figure if it ran with the old belts, it'll run with the new ones. Just mark the pulleys before you take off the old belts, and have at it.

Raymond

My method exactly Raymond. I've posted a few times that the easiest and safest way to change belts is to mark the pulleys and case and put the new belts on so that the marks stay lined up. It really doesn't matter where they start out though I turn the pulleys so the UPs are rightside up andat 9 and 3 o'clock. Always hand turn any engine after timing belt, chain or whatever replacement! Don't do it by the starter and for sure don't skip that step.

stretrod48

· #10 · Jul 6, 2005

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I have a set of heads you can have for what I have in them if you decide to rebuild.:skipping:

ccsailor

· #11 · Jul 6, 2005

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hey COOT you paying attention or are we all blowing in the wind?

Coot

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jul 6, 2005

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I'm still recovering from my mistake. I thought about buying one off ebay, but years ago I bought a motor for a fiat that was suppose to be in great working order, except forthe spun bearing. My Suzuki mech disagreed too, never know what you will get. I broke down the motor yesterday.

I've bought some heads and piston rods already. Going to get some new .50mm over pistons and new bearings.Maybe in a month or two I'll have it back together.

Thanks for the help everyone, Coot

englishted

· #13 · Jul 6, 2005

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GWEddie wrote:

Coot, didn't you try to turn the engine by hand after you fitted the belts and before starting the engine? If you did and it turned without locking up, then it sounds like a belt slipped after you did start the engine. Half a tooth off is not unusual for a Wing, I just can't see how half a tooth off would do this.

Eddie is right, the timinghad to be several teeth off for this disaster. But Coot already knows this from one of his posts. Just turning the engine by hand before starting would have save all this and this is what every mechanic in the world does after fitting new belts because it's common sense.
I also think a used engine is a better option. Once I read about the bent rod and the damaged bore that was enough for me to suggest another engine. Much cheaper for a start. Also if a guy manages to wreck an engine by getting the belt timing worng, I'd have to question his ability to rebuild a damaged engine without making other errors, no offence intended but that's just the way I see it.

Coot

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 6, 2005

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englishted wrote:

GWEddie wrote:

Coot, didn't you try to turn the engine by hand after you fitted the belts and before starting the engine? If you did and it turned without locking up, then it sounds like a belt slipped after you did start the engine. Half a tooth off is not unusual for a Wing, I just can't see how half a tooth off would do this.

Click to expand...

Eddie is right, the timinghad to be several teeth off for this disaster. But Coot already knows this from one of his posts. Just turning the engine by hand before starting would have save all this and this is what every mechanic in the world does after fitting new belts because it's common sense.
I also think a used engine is a better option. Once I read about the bent rod and the damaged bore that was enough for me to suggest another engine. Much cheaper for a start. Also if a guy manages to wreck an engine by getting the belt timing worng, I'd have to question his ability to rebuild a damaged engine without making other errors, no offence intended but that's just the way I see it.

Hey englishted, for one thing I'm not a mechanic by trade, I own custom cabinet shop. The timing marks on the right head are very faint, a little raised speck above a indented mark. I've worked on fiats, vw's, jeeps and boats and have never seen two totally different timing marks as there is on the left and right pulleys (Fiats have dual overhead cams). And yes I should have turn it over by hand but I just wasn't thinking about it at the time. The belts had been on fortwo years before I tried to start it, back then I should have testedit andturned it over by hand but it wasn't ready to run. I screwed it up but I can afford to fix it. Coot

ccsailor

· #15 · Jul 7, 2005

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I too think a used engine would be my route after that kind of damage

Who knows what else could (murphies law) go wrong and I would not be able to take "Oh I'll be back riding in a couple of months" sceaneario That's all we get up here sometimes

neil

exavid

· #16 · Jul 7, 2005

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Yep, I'd be looking for a used mill, swap them out get back on the road. Then use the old one for a rebuild project, learn a lot and have a whole spare ready to go.

77GL1

· #17 · Jul 7, 2005

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Coot wrote:

englishted wrote:

GWEddie wrote:

Coot, didn't you try to turn the engine by hand after you fitted the belts and before starting the engine? If you did and it turned without locking up, then it sounds like a belt slipped after you did start the engine. Half a tooth off is not unusual for a Wing, I just can't see how half a tooth off would do this.

Click to expand...

Eddie is right, the timinghad to be several teeth off for this disaster. But Coot already knows this from one of his posts. Just turning the engine by hand before starting would have save all this and this is what every mechanic in the world does after fitting new belts because it's common sense.
I also think a used engine is a better option. Once I read about the bent rod and the damaged bore that was enough for me to suggest another engine. Much cheaper for a start. Also if a guy manages to wreck an engine by getting the belt timing worng, I'd have to question his ability to rebuild a damaged engine without making other errors, no offence intended but that's just the way I see it.

Click to expand...

Hey englishted, for one thing I'm not a mechanic by trade, I own custom cabinet shop. The timing marks on the right head are very faint, a little raised speck above a indented mark. I've worked on fiats, vw's, jeeps and boats and have never seen two totally different timing marks as there is on the left and right pulleys (Fiats have dual overhead cams). And yes I should have turn it over by hand but I just wasn't thinking about it at the time. The belts had been on fortwo years before I tried to start it, back then I should have testedit andturned it over by hand but it wasn't ready to run. I screwed it up but I can afford to fix it. Coot

I know you must allready be feelin' bad enough - eh? I'd be kickin' myself in the as* for a long time after that one!!!! Try and get an engine off ebay or other source. Post a request, "help, engine needed". ....but really, nobody's rich enough to make too many mistakes like that. Good luck!!

exavid

· #18 · Jul 7, 2005

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I'm a bit disappointed that some of us are carping at someone who made a mistake instead of offering support. It's a damn good bet that all of us have made some dumb mistakes. Unless you went to a mechanics school or had a mentor to work with it's most likely every one of us has had an expensive lesson or two. I know I've had a couple. It's been more than once I've skipped a step in a job and had to tear it back down to rectify. It's not a normal event anymore for me, but it took many years to for me to feel reasonably competent.

I know when I screw up I'm the harder on myself than anyone else, and I don't need any 'I told you so' stuff from anyone else. That kind of stuff will drive people away when it would a lot better to commiserate and support our fellows and ourselves to promote learning and confidence. (end of rant)

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Tonys96

· #19 · Jul 7, 2005

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Not to be jumpin' on exavid's band wagon, but just holler if we can be of any help.

Coot

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jul 9, 2005

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Thanks exavid and Tonys96 for the encouragement. The used heads and rod came in today and went right to the varsol tank. Sunday they go under the foredom for some porting and polishing. Hopefully next week the heads will go to theguru to get a valve job. I'll keep you guys posted on the progress, Coot

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