[Retiredrecluse]

Have you seen the "wet" belts fitted to some Fords now!

Nope, sure haven’t? Sounds like another “Ford” recall is in the future? 🤣

 

[mickster150]

How would you explain why Honda does put a replacement interval on Honda cars?

Most likely due to the load of the belt and condition it is run in requires it. The fact that there is a service interval on a car and not on the motorcycle is very telling.

 

[mickster150]

I doubt if you would ever find any vehicle that uses timing belts that requires the engine to be dismantled. Cars engines with belts can be replaced without pulling the engine. Part of normal maintenance.

I think you misunderstood what I meant, what I am saying is that if the belts were much harder to change, I think you would find that not many would be. It's not really about safety as much as it's about people who like to feel that have made a difference on their machine. People for some reason (not all, but some) like to think the decisions they make on engines they own will last longer than the average engine will. The oil additive industry preys upon these type of people. Someone out there is using an oil additive that will make no difference, but the customer feels that he is making a difference. The truth is most machines end of life is usually decided by the quality and design of manufacturing. What brand of chemicals used is more 'snake oil' than truth.

 

[mickster150]

Just for fun, I did a search on my phone last night for any stories of people with broken GL1500 belts. Didn't find any (I might trying searching on a computer later). Not even a story about someone knowing someone with a broken belt. With the oldest gl1500's being 35 years old, and the internet being popular for 25 years, you would think there would be a story somewhere.

If anyone has a story or has a link, I would love to read it.

later,
mickey

 

[limpy45]

I owned a 80's something year Ford Escort for a few years. It has a timing belt and interference engine. Did not have it long enough to have any major problems. But, while working the counter at a auto parts store in town, I did have a customer come in that had broken the belt somehow driving. He swore up and down he did not need to pull the head and check the valves and all "cause he was not going fast?" Well, after all the bs was done and he replaced the belt, he had to tear down the engine and replace several bent valves!! I bought a 99 GL1500 a few years ago and changed the belts just to be on the safe side! Easy for me as I have done several before on other bikes. Cheap insurance I think.

 

[Retiredrecluse]

I owned a 80's something year Ford Escort for a few years. It has a timing belt and interference engine. Did not have it long enough to have any major problems. But, while working the counter at a auto parts store in town, I did have a customer come in that had broken the belt somehow driving. He swore up and down he did not need to pull the head and check the valves and all "cause he was not going fast?" Well, after all the bs was done and he replaced the belt, he had to tear down the engine and replace several bent valves!! I bought a 99 GL1500 a few years ago and changed the belts just to be on the safe side! Easy for me as I have done several before on other bikes. Cheap insurance I think.

Most certainly is. “When I doubt, change them out.”

 

[Bryanlj]

I have seen as a mechanic lots of cars with broken belts here in UK, we dont do as much mileage and the owners never read the service book properly where it gives mileage OR time for change, towed in a 5 yr old Escort with cvh engine and stripped belt, only 28,000 but 5 yrs old(change was 36000 or 3 yrs then), cost him 8 valves, gasket kit, head bolts, belt kit and water pump plus consumables.
No garage would fit belt without pump as belt drove pump.
The engine with wet belt seems to be the diels in mondeo, transit and the like

 

[RambozoClown]

Because of the way people post, it is difficult to search for timing belt failures, but in following this and one other GoldWing forum, I know I have seen half a dozen over the last few years.
I've probably changed hundreds on all kinds of engines, and have seen a ton of failures. Typically an engine that runs everyday and is maintained will see a long belt life, and even some warning when the belt starts to get old. However, engines that sit, keep the tight curve around the crank sprocket in the same place, and the belt will typically fail there. You can even see it in the broken belt that it has taken a permanent set in that place. Unfortunately many GoldWings can often sit for decades. I didn't do a lot of research before purchase but got lucky and ended up with a daily driver. Sure the mileage was high, but it runs like a Swiss watch. Over and over I see folks here with "barn finds" with super low milage and good looks, but man the problems they have trying to resurrect them.

 

[mickster150]

I owned a 80's something year Ford Escort for a few years. It has a timing belt and interference engine. Did not have it long enough to have any major problems. But, while working the counter at a auto parts store in town, I did have a customer come in that had broken the belt somehow driving. He swore up and down he did not need to pull the head and check the valves and all "cause he was not going fast?" Well, after all the bs was done and he replaced the belt, he had to tear down the engine and replace several bent valves!! I bought a 99 GL1500 a few years ago and changed the belts just to be on the safe side! Easy for me as I have done several before on other bikes. Cheap insurance I think.

Yep that particular motor had a poor design that caused its belt to fail. Just because a ford escort has timing belt issues, does not mean that all motors have timing belt issues. GM also had problems with cam shafts going flat in the 80's. This did not mean the camshaft lobes will wear flat on your goldwing. It usually comes down to design, quality of materials, and gross misuse of product that causes failure.

 

[mickster150]

Because of the way people post, it is difficult to search for timing belt failures, but in following this and one other GoldWing forum, I know I have seen half a dozen over the last few years.
I've probably changed hundreds on all kinds of engines, and have seen a ton of failures. Typically an engine that runs everyday and is maintained will see a long belt life, and even some warning when the belt starts to get old. However, engines that sit, keep the tight curve around the crank sprocket in the same place, and the belt will typically fail there. You can even see it in the broken belt that it has taken a permanent set in that place. Unfortunately many GoldWings can often sit for decades. I didn't do a lot of research before purchase but got lucky and ended up with a daily driver. Sure the mileage was high, but it runs like a Swiss watch. Over and over I see folks here with "barn finds" with super low milage and good looks, but man the problems they have trying to resurrect them.

could you post a couple of links. Didn't have much luck through google.

 

[DaveO430]

Most likely due to the load of the belt and condition it is run in requires it. The fact that there is a service interval on a car and not on the motorcycle is very telling.

They are larger belts so load is not an issue, what conditions are different? It tells me they don't expect a goldwing to still be on the road that long.

 

[fcanary]

I owned a 80's something year Ford Escort for a few years. It has a timing belt and interference engine. Did not have it long enough to have any major problems. But, while working the counter at a auto parts store in town, I did have a customer come in that had broken the belt somehow driving. He swore up and down he did not need to pull the head and check the valves and all "cause he was not going fast?" Well, after all the bs was done and he replaced the belt, he had to tear down the engine and replace several bent valves!! I bought a 99 GL1500 a few years ago and changed the belts just to be on the safe side! Easy for me as I have done several before on other bikes. Cheap insurance I think.

My wife had an ‘86 Escort. The belt broke on us in Vermont. Rural, rural, did I mention rural Vermont? Somehow we managed not to do any damage to the engine. The mechanic was both shocked and disappointed that we didn’t do damage!

 

[DenverWinger]

I've had two belts let go on my '85 Toyota Camry with now 355,000 miles, (changed the belt 5 times now) one I was planning that very weekend to change it because it had reached 75000 miles but it broke that Thursday on the way to work, and another let go at only some 20,000 miles. Non-interference engine, though, lucky, just put another belt on and go some more...

 

[Bryanlj]

One other thing that most people dont notice in the handbook of cars is if the first belt change is 80,000 then the second is only 60,000 after that.
Honda did not originaly put a time or mileage change on the GL 1000, just an inspect at recomendation, somewhere i have a copy of the Honda UK manual and in there is a handwritten note saying change at 80,000

 

[DaveO430]

Honda didn't have a service interval on the timing belts in their cars early on (1970s) but they were not interference engines. The belts would last maybe 75 to 80,000 miles.

 

[mickster150]

They are larger belts so load is not an issue, what conditions are different? It tells me they don't expect a goldwing to still be on the road that long.

It tells me that Honda knows that in this particular design, they don't usually fail and only need inspected every 100,000 miles . You don't have to believe me, believe Honda engineers.

The biggest condition of all.................. It is a different design. A honda car motor is not a honda motorcycle motor. Also each motor type is of different design. So what may need to be done on a 2.5 doesn't need done on a 3.0. Every motor has its weakness (some motors it's the timing belt(ford escorts were known for breaking belts).

If gl1500's were breaking belts and killing people (no matter how old the motors are), in the USA there would be lawyers suing and information would be out there. It would be all over the internet.

For example the GM ignition lock issue. GM is doing recalls on cars that are almost 20 years old due to safety.

I have seen people say that it's cheap insurance. That is a very good thing to compare it too. Cheap insurance is usually worthless (that's is why its cheap, it doesn't pay).

 

[cihilb]

It tells me that Honda knows that in this particular design, they don't usually fail and only need inspected every 100,000 miles . You don't have to believe me, believe Honda engineers.

The biggest condition of all.................. It is a different design. A honda car motor is not a honda motorcycle motor. Also each motor type is of different design. So what may need to be done on a 2.5 doesn't need done on a 3.0. Every motor has its weakness (some motors it's the timing belt(ford escorts were known for breaking belts).

If gl1500's were breaking belts and killing people (no matter how old the motors are), in the USA there would be lawyers suing and information would be out there. It would be all over the internet.

For example the GM ignition lock issue. GM is doing recalls on cars that are almost 20 years old due to safety.

I have seen people say that it's cheap insurance. That is a very good thing to compare it too. Cheap insurance is usually worthless (that's is why its cheap, it doesn't pay).

One question, if the belt system was so bulletproof, why did Honda change it to timing chains on the 1800's?

 

[DaveO430]

It tells me that Honda knows that in this particular design, they don't usually fail and only need inspected every 100,000 miles . You don't have to believe me, believe Honda engineers.

The biggest condition of all.................. It is a different design. A honda car motor is not a honda motorcycle motor. Also each motor type is of different design. So what may need to be done on a 2.5 doesn't need done on a 3.0. Every motor has its weakness (some motors it's the timing belt(ford escorts were known for breaking belts).

If gl1500's were breaking belts and killing people (no matter how old the motors are), in the USA there would be lawyers suing and information would be out there. It would be all over the internet.

For example the GM ignition lock issue. GM is doing recalls on cars that are almost 20 years old due to safety.

I have seen people say that it's cheap insurance. That is a very good thing to compare it too. Cheap insurance is usually worthless (that's is why its cheap, it doesn't pay).

You go ahead and do as you wish. If it were mine I would change them. For $50 and a couple hours the peace of mind is easily worth it.

 

[mickster150]

One question, if the belt system was so bulletproof, why did Honda change it to timing chains on the 1800's?

I imagine it is improvement on design. Another way to put it, if the belts were so bad, why did they use them from 1976 to 2000.

 

[mickster150]

You go ahead and do as you wish. If it were mine I would change them. For $50 and a couple hours the peace of mind is easily worth it.

To each there own, whatever makes each person happy.