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I've gone 'round with the timing of my '77 GL1000 (avitar). I blew the DynaS almost a year ago and didn't want to replace the old DynaS with a new one till I rewired the bike, making sure there wouldn't be any electrical problems to blow the new one. I had a good bit of time to research and apply all the data I could find about the the timing. As I discovered what a pain setting the points are, on the GL1000, it seemed that there wasn't enough room on the timing plate to get the right adjustment, or the slots that allow the points to rotate weren't long enough to get the proper timing. This was resolved according to the Haynes manual by trying different openings between .012 and .016, thus varying the advance or retard even further. Later, I read in Randakks pages that the end of the camshaft wobbles and that's what causes the problem, which is where "splitting the difference" comes in. Set the 1-2 point at 2 degrees before the "F" mark and 3-4 point 3 degrees after the "F" mark.

Now I finally got my DynaS back and discover the problem still exists, and I've still got to split the difference. I think that Dynatek went by Honda's spec when they designed their unit, and as shown in the attached jpeg you'll see what I mean. The seperate units are moved as far together as phyisically possible, yet the 1-2 unit cannot be retarded further and the 3-4 unit cannot be advances. So I've still got the 1-2 advanced about 2 degrees and the 3-4 retarded about 3 degrees.

I think Honda somehow set their timing configuration too close together. It's the same weather you use points or magnets.
 

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My bike had the dynas on it when I got it, but it was way off, I just set it using a test light and it seemed to work good, I don't have the plug adapter to use the timing light and boy does it make a mess with out it. But my bike seems to run good so I'll leave well enough alone.
 

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Gearhead76 wrote:
I don't have the plug adapter to use the timing light and boy does it make a mess with out it. But my bike seems to run good so I'll leave well enough alone.
Yea-mine runs pretty good, just not right on the money. Check your 3-4 timing, or what says "2 F'' (#3 or #4 plug) on your flywheel and see where it is. Bet you find it about 5 degrees retarded. I static time both sets of points.
 

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When I read Randall's split timing tip, I got the impression that he was saying that the camshaft wobble would cause the ignition firing to occur at different places on the same set of points... I have been setting it as in the drawing below to split the difference... perhaps I have misread his instructions...


And I agree, it is a real pain to get that 3/4 (T2) set properly.. like you, I don't have enough travel in the plate.. thought about opening the slots a little more to get just a squeek bit more movement... also thought about just going with the DynaS unit.
 

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Thomas_1975 wrote:
When I read Randall's split timing tip, I got the impression that he was saying that the camshaft wobble would cause the ignition firing to occur at different places on the same set of points... I have been setting it as in the drawing below to split the difference... perhaps I have misread his instructions...
Thomas, you are correct in that Randakk specifies that one of the points will be correctly set, and the other will need the "split the difference". He also states that sometimes it's the 3-4 point, but that it CAN be the 1-2 point....he states he has no explination why it's the 3-4 on some bikes and the 1-2 on others.

What I've noticed is that with either points or electric points, there's not enough rotational adjustmentto get the timing right on both points.


The head tech guy at Dynatek tells me that it's because of variatiation in the marks on the flywheel......in other words, Honda's "mass production" isexactly that. He made the point that he just got a 1600cc (342hp) Suzi backfrom at Vance& Hynes and the flywheel marks are off by 5 degrees.

That WOULD explain all the different readings people are getting, but I can tell that half my engine's running a little differently than the other. It's very slight, but I can still hear and feel it.....atleast I have no stumble anywhere in the rpm range, and the bike starts easy. I still have a milage test to do.
 

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77GL1,

I assume you set the timing as described above to get the really great results you have gotten... You have gone to the DynaS as the solution for you, and I am sure tempted to go that route myself when I can afford to do it. Hope you don't mind chatting about this for a bit, it would certainly help me, and possibly others that are new to these "Wings".

The timing quirks on these older wings seems really finicky to me, or else I am just not getting it yet.

On mine ( still a point setup ) I get a timing variation ( from wobble I assume )on both sets of points ( the 1/2 T1and the 3/4 T2 ).. so I have tried to average them both, T1 averaged, and T2 as best I can.. If I am reading you right, you are saying that because of this quirk of insuffient travel to properly set the secondary reference, a compromise must be made and you average everything combined.


For folks still using...cough...points...


The book says the point gap should not exceed .016...but to get the 3/4 T2 set to work rightI have to exceed that because of the limited travel on the plate. If I don't concern myself about the dwell overlap issue on T2 then it can be done within the .016, but to set that part I have to gap it out to .018 if I recall correctly. Sheesh, it's gotta be easier than this... what is the best solution?

I have a feeling your going to suggest that I stop struggling with all this, get a DynaS and go enjoy riding... gotta rebuild the carbs first and would like to get the timing set as best I can.
 

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Thomas_1975 wrote:
wobble...on both sets of points ( the 1/2 T1and the 3/4 T2 ).. so I have tried to average them both, T1 averaged, and T2 as best I can.. If I am reading you right, you are saying that because of this quirk of insuffient travel to properly set the secondary reference, a compromise must be made and you average everything combined.
Yea that about says it. I got the variation in both sets, but more in the 1-2 than the 3-4. I found if I set the 3-4 or left point at about 14, just above 12 on the 1-2 or right side point, would work. I tried a number of different point makes and that was a big deal. Remember, when I bought the bike it had the dynaS (until bad electrics blew it out), at that point the guy I bought the bike from, kindly gave me a points plate with a very old set of points on it. It turned out the real old (pitted) points, after a bit of sanding, were better than anything else I tried. You can get points from Honda, but they're actually aftermarket. One of the threads on this site has a current link for the DynaS at about $145, something like that.

The DynaS too, will not move close enough (toward the top) together to get the perfect timing adjustment. I ended up with the 1-2 side at 2 degrees advanced, and the 3-4 3 degrees retarded, but after all the electrical mods I did, including Accel Super Coils, I improved my gas mileage from [email protected] to [email protected]


The bike is running GREAT and there is none of the famous stumble off idle that everyone complains about. Full throttle work right, good torque at all rpms..........all good!!
 

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The head tech guy at Dynatek tells me that it's because of variatiation in the marks on the flywheel......in other words, Honda's "mass production" isexactly that. He made the point that he just got a 1600cc (342hp) Suzi backfrom at Vance& Hynes and the flywheel marks are off by 5 degrees.
Leaves me wondering if the early Wings had a history of a problem with this or not... a small variation because of mass production I could understand... but if larger 4 or 5 degree variations were more common than thought then it would mean we would have to find the best "unique" spot for our individual bikes, and factor that as an "offset" to be used in our setups. Guess it still comes down to 'knowing' your bike, and custom tweeking within guidelines and reference points using the wisdom of others that have come before us....

... says to himself... now Tom, just get the DynaS and forget it all... the mysteries of the perfect timing setup will just drive you crazy anyway....
 

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I've heard this complaint from many that'veused points. I know a guy locally that's been building '75 thru '77 Wings fom many years, and say's points on these bikes are impossible to get right, or very hard. It's just not worth the effort while there are electronic ignitions availible.

Hey Tom, I know that eventually YOU WILL get one. I'll bet on it!


You might also consider that when ever a new product comes out, there's always bugs that they work outyear after year. Some are just for marketing purposes and some are polution standard.....and some are just oversights.
 

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Yep, I know that I will probably go with one too... just have to wait until a spare $150.00 is available... I have only had this 1975 Wing since March, and have beendoing a lot of work on it, testing, getting to know it as best I can, and of course reading everything everyone here has to say about these critters... What an incredible resource this board and the community is for others...

Current project is to pull the carbs andrecondition them.. ordered Randakk's kit ( he's been great to order from ) and should have it on hand next week... Hope to get even close to the kind of mpg results your getting... but I know that come next season there will be an electronic ignition in there, unless someone comes along and says... no...no Tom... you misunderstood... it's a lot easier than this, here... try this... given the numbers of folks that have gone with the DynaS it's hard to argue with results.
 

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Tom,

The first thing I did with mine, was to put on new radiator hoses and thermostat (Texas heat)...I wanted to be sure. I used Napa parts as found on many Goldwing sites. Then I put 8000 miles on it without doing hardly anything except the main fuse had been.....ok- the main fuse had been change to a modern Auto 2prong, and that's fine, but the guy had just twisted the wires together and taped them. It cut out a couple times out in "Timbukto" and it didn't take me long to find the problem and solder the wires. My electrical problems did show from the beginning in the form of a slow blinker and I saw a general mess inside the fairing (aftermarket installation done by - who knows). Then one of the points in my DynaS blew, actually because back in '85 when it was installed Dynatek shipped a little "piggyback" extra ballast to increase the ohm level for their unit (they've changed that). One of the soldered terminal on the extra ballast finally came loose (after 20years) and casued a surge thru the unit and blew out half (one point).

I ran mechanical points for nearly 8mos. because I decided I'd have to correct all possible electrical bugs before spending the$$ to replace it. It took me quite a while to get around to rewiring the bike because frankly, I didn't wan'a take it off the road for any length of time. It turned out to only take my 4 days of consentrated work to modify and rewire the bike. Adding "Accel Super Coils" bring the plug voltage up to 35-40k volts to the plug, but also 3ohm of resistance, so I don't need any ballast resistor or any of the "start on 12vt. run on 6vt."components or wiring that comes on the Goldwing. A good 20ft. of wire in the trash can just from that system.

I've rewired all the bikes I've owned and the great thing about that is, you really get to know the bike. The process is extreemly educational!!!
 

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Hey Tom, I know that eventually YOU WILL get one. I'll bet on it!
Guess you called that one ... should be here any hour now... ( grins )...

I was hoping you would say that you found a solution... is there enough material on the inner meeting faces of the dyna pickups to remove a few thousands of an inch? If they could move closer togetherthen the 3/4 ( T2 ) wouldn't have to be retarded as much...

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the T1 shouldn't be overly advanced when averaging the T1/T2 as a whole ... to allow a litte more on the T2 retarded side to get it best... example ...4 degree spread... go1 degree advanced on T1, and 3 degrees retardedon T2? (if we could get another 1 or 2 degrees advance on T2 by getting the pickups slightly closer )... hmmm... or just live with it??? Frustrating... can't play cause UPS has the Dyna-S on their truck... but it will get here today sometime, the tracking page says so, and we all know that computers are never wrong... :)

Thank you for for all the insights you have offered so far... it's nice to know that it's not just me that is struggling with "Proper Timing" on these classic Wings... it will make the installation go easier when I get to do mine.
 

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Thomas_1975 wrote:
Hey Tom, I know that eventually YOU WILL get one. I'll bet on it!
Guess you called that one ... should be here any hour now... ( grins )...

I was hoping you would say that you found a solution... is there enough material on the inner meeting faces of the dyna pickups to remove a few thousands of an inch? If they could move closer togetherthen the 3/4 ( T2 ) wouldn't have to be retarded as much...

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the T1 shouldn't be overly advanced when averaging the T1/T2 as a whole ... to allow a litte more on the T2 retarded side to get it best... example ...4 degree spread... go1 degree advanced on T1, and 3 degrees retardedon T2? (if we could get another 1 or 2 degrees advance on T2 by getting the pickups slightly closer )... hmmm... or just live with it??? Frustrating... can't play cause UPS has the Dyna-S on their truck... but it will get here today sometime, the tracking page says so, and we all know that computers are never wrong... :)

Thank you for for all the insights you have offered so far... it's nice to know that it's not just me that is struggling with "Proper Timing" on these classic Wings... it will make the installation go easier when I get to do mine.
Yes, well one of the things that Dynatek suggested was that I remove some of the surfacebetween the pickups, but I'm very reluctant to do that. They might turn around and void any potential warranty....and yes, I tried all kinds of different settings of advance on the "1T", trying to ballance with the offset retarded state of the "2T" mark and anything over maybe, 1 degree advanced on #1 I found to be counter productive. I wouldn't say 1 degree is an exact measurment by any means, but I think you get the picture.

I think I should also include the possiblity that with production variationis, your bike may have timing marks thatare closer than mine, but from the sound of the things you've said, they must be pretty similar.
 
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