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Looking around in basement, looking for a chainsaw I misplaced, found a like new Odyssey PC680 battery bought less than a month after I bought the one that is in our 1997 GL1500 Trike. I had almost forgotten it, I had bought it for a bike that I no longer own, so I got to thinking, build a light weight box and put it in the trunk, place it on a disconnect, and wire it with same type ring terminals. Run POS side straight to terminal on solenoid as OEM, only use it's own ring terminal. Wire NEG side to a battery disconnect that is handy, then to good ground. Comp-u-Fire would easily charge both if left connected.


It'll do me more good having it if needed than sitting on a shelf gathering dust. The PC680 is not heavy, it is AGM, and this is the same trike that lived off a single PC680 from 2004 until 2016 …. and that one left here with the bike. Be like carrying my own jump.


PS, I found my chainsaw I was looking for too! Don't know why I stashed it there where I found it though.
 

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The problem with that setup is that the second battery will only charge if your isolation switch is closed. So you would need to remember to close it every time you want to charge the battery, and open it before doing something that would run the battery(s) down. Instead, place a suitable diode across your isolation switch so the battery will charge with the switch open, but can't be drained unless the switch is closed. Be aware that your switch will need to handle the full starting current, so you might want to use a solenoid for that instead.

A similar system is often installed on limos so they can still be started if the main battery is drained running accessories with the engine off. Some are fully automatic, you just turn the key, while others require you push a button to "give yourself a jump".

(This might be a little easier if done on the positive side as there are commercial battery isolators for that side, with current limiting for protection.)
 

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I don't view that as a problem at all.
Once the AGM battery is charged, it will maintain that charge for a year or more, w/o any supplemental charge. Providing of course, that a switching method is used to disconnect it from the other stuff. like the schematic above.

the AGM on my Auxiliary Generator only gets charged when the generator is running, supplying a/c to my house.

yet, that battery has always measured ~12.6 volts every time I put a VM on it.

and, even when the generator had not been used for 2.5 years, and we had a power failure, the starter whirled over the engine at the usual quick speed, and the generator's engine started up in about 5 seconds.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the input guys!

Yes, the PC680 I found was last charged (if ever since I got it winter of 2015) long enough ago that I forgot where I had put it, but is at 12.62 volts still. My box for it (I still have boxes for both) has my note showing 12.84 volts when received.

I think I probably did charge it along with my backup generator's new AGM and the new PC680 from trike and the older but still kicking 2004 vintage PC680 back this past winter with my 2-6-10 amp charger / maintainer that has AGM mode too.

It's just "a thought", not ever seen sign of need unless a problem developed on the road. I think I'd remember to open / close connector. I considered putting it in the trailer, but I seldom pull it. Doing this would be more for piece of mind, and trike has plenty room for it.

As to the switch or disconnect device, I was planning to use one of the kind with a knob you screw down on to make connection, when loosened it disconnects. It's rated 80 amps.

I have one "lock box" in the lower trunk for which to lock my friend in if I leave it in the trunk, but I never do leave it. A battery box for this extra AGM battery would fit nicely in there in place of.


 

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Well, I can't decide (but I will soon)

… 1) do I build and install a dedicated "box" that's 7.125" long X 3.000" wide X 6.750 or 7.000" tall inside (room needed for PC-680) and fasten it in place
or
… 2) do I simply add a strap inside the lower trunk to secure it in place, and cover the terminals (especially that pos. terminal) with a piece of rubber sheet under the strap?

I know I can lay the PC680 down if I like (it is a AGM battery), the switch in my above post will simply be installed "in line" and I can make the cables as long or short as needed. The more I look in the trunk, with my lock box on the right and the owners book & tool kit simply strapped on the left side, both at front of trunk, the more I favor #2). The strap idea will work, using a 1" wide nylon type strap and would hold the battery upright against the front wall of the trunk, away from the "door" at rear. It would also allow me to move the battery a bit if needed for odd reasons (like simply to access those (-) & (+) screw terminals). Of course, I'd need to use well insulated cabling. This way, the whole rear of trunk stays accessible, things like my camera bag or overnight bags would be easy to insert.

As on Sat, 082419, I unfastened the lock box and removed it and made a place on it's side to set/strap the PC680 beside it, then remounted the lock box. It's a wooden lock box I made of 3/4" stock with 3/8" plywood top and bottom, glued & screwed seams. It's not Fort Knox, but it's not meant to be. It's sealed, painted black, interior is 8X7X3". It's bolted to trunk floor with 4 1/4" bolts from inside and nylock nuts/etc under trike rear. It'll more than secure the battery beside it.

Again, my only reason for the second battery idea is simply because I have it and to simply leave it on a shelf seems "wasteful" to me. I don't need another portable power source, I have two still good / used group 65 batteries in a cart I built years ago, they are rated @ like 850 CCA each. I charge them occasionally. If I need a boost or power, they are ready.
 

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Those screw knob disconnects are great. We have two in the '63 Nova I helped build. They handle way more than 80 amps intermittently. Why not just hook it up and leave it alone? The disconnect is nice to have to be able to charge one battery at a time if needed, but there shouldn't be any real need to ever disconnect the battery.
 

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Well, the ones I have acquired (2) are smaller (to give an idea of size, they are about 2.48" long) than those used on cars, for example the holes are suited to 6mm or 1/4" (tight fit) screws or bolts. I will put one to each battery on the neg side so I can easily disconnect all battery juice if it's gonna be off road for awhile, like winter, or charge each independently, but easy to fire up.

I have also used the bigger ones on cars, and they do work well. I used them last on my '77 F150 & .92 Thunderbird Sport and our '08 GT. I was gonna use one on others but it causes the computer to reset and have to relearn on newer stuff, so I removed it from the GT. Then one day, my wife went to drive or move the '92, she didn't know about it and so I was called about a "problem". I removed them then as the only two I had them on did not have parasitic power drains anyway. I just spread my use and give all a drive on occasion now.


Edit 082519: Made up some lugs from 5/16" copper tubing yesterday evening (mashed end flat for bolt, drilled 15/64" hole, cut to length, and soldered to cables) & made some stiff stainless steel "L" mounts for the disconnect devices to mount the devices off neg terminal of the batteries, rethreaded some chintsy 5mm holes to 6mm threads, and tomorrow I will solder my copper lugs to the 4ga. red and black battery cables (I fond them hanging on a basement joist, I don't know when or for what I bought them, but they were long enough for this project, they might have been leftover from a winch project years ago?), drill holes in my custom lugs for attachment, and route them to the trunk battery (& protect that red one). The red pos (+) cable will piggy back off the OEM position battery like a jumper cable would attached at the pos terminal (Should not cause a problem as the wiring from there to trike start circuit can supply all it will draw) ... but the neg cable will terminate at a ground terminal on the trike's frame. Took a few experimental tries to get that one hanging off the trike's normal battery's negative terminal and the regular ground cable attached in a position that it did not hamper access to the rear master cylinder reservoir cap … but I got it done.


Edit 082619: Well, tonight I ran the red pos (+) cable along the frame rearwards and dropped down into the trunk (picked a spot where unlikely to see water intrusion) to very near just above the pos (+) terminal location of battery in trunk. There is about 18-20" of excess cable which allowed me to "coil" it (against the trunk front wall out of the way) as I attached it to the battery and placed the battery in position and strapped in place. The negative connection is to the disconnect on the end of the battery now facing the trunk door. I ran this black cable through the floor in a discrete place straight down from the battery end and grounded the cable to the trike frame at the rear. Cabling is secured with "a few" zip ties and the red one also protected by plastic split loom.


Edit 090419:Well, appointments …. but gonna go get her inspected tomorrow. Those two Odyssey AGMs and my hook up work great! Today I checked charges, both at 96 and 97 %. Was so easy to charge to 100% each at same time using AGM setting on 6 amps.
 

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Those screw knob disconnects are great. We have two in the '63 Nova I helped build. They handle way more than 80 amps intermittently. Why not just hook it up and leave it alone? The disconnect is nice to have to be able to charge one battery at a time if needed, but there shouldn't be any real need to ever disconnect the battery.
They are like I said, just a 0.02" hair less than 2-1/2 inches long to give perspective. The silver screw that you hook cables to is 5 mm and poorly threaded in the lower body. That blue knob is molded around a brass 5 mm bolt for lack of better term, it's also threaded into the upper body part through the lower and the white plastic insulating piece but the threads are only marginally better.
In the interest of long term durability, I drilled both out (after ascertaining that 6 mm would clear the larger hole in lower part insulated from upper part) to tap out to 6 mm and used a new tap. I brought a 6 mm bolt through both from the back side and snugged up well I then used a nut & washer on the wire mount "stud" I made steel knobs from some odd bits I had and tapped a center hole at the same 6 mm thread. I installed the knobs I made and then used a thin lock nut on the end of the "stud" to stop the knob spinning off when I open the disconnects. 1-1/4 turn from open to close max. Works great. I even bought a spare, just to have, in case one breaks someday.

When building my home, I was often accused by a buddy of never using just two 16Ds where three or four will fit.
:surprise:
I demonstrated for that buddy when helping him build his home, that you can use construction adhesive and four 16Ds on a wall stud end. Then he had the nerve of asking me to go find some bent nails and straightening them.
:rofl:
 

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My thoughts are:

Do NOT have the 2nd battery in parallel permanently.
Its' intention is to be an Emergency battery to get you "the hell out of Dodge" in case you have a late night party, and forget to turn off the Stereo and run the main battery down.

For me? If I felt the need to "keep it charged", I would use a relay triggered by the Accessory terminal. That relay could place the battery in parallel with the main battery.

I am betting that you use it to help a friend, way more often than for yourself.
been there, done that one. For that reason, you would want to be able to remove it easily.

the series Diode idea has a major flaw:
the 2nd battery would never get a full charge owing to the fact that diodes have a defined Voltage Drop across the junction.
  • Silicon ~0.7 volts
  • Germanium ~0.2 volts
I too, have a spare AGM setting in my office...
use it sporadically to power up something that needs 12 volts while I play with it inside the house.

as for a dedicated box? it does not need one, just pack the Saddle bag appropriately to keep it from bouncing around..... or, add a strap to keep it in place.
Frogg Toggs and the bike covers should do the job adequately, that is how I hold the spare 1 gallon Jerry can for my "Get the hell out of Dodge" when I run out of gasoline. ( done that already once for myself )
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My thoughts are:

Do NOT have the 2nd battery in parallel permanently.
Its' intention is to be an Emergency battery to get you "the hell out of Dodge" in case you have a late night party, and forget to turn off the Stereo and run the main battery down. That'll work too.

For me? If I felt the need to "keep it charged", I would use a relay triggered by the Accessory terminal. That relay could place the battery in parallel with the main battery. I thought about a relay.

I am betting that you use it to help a friend, way more often than for yourself. Likely.
been there, done that one. For that reason, you would want to be able to remove it easily. Oh, it's easily removed. Just release strap, remove a 10mm nut at neg end, then slide back toward door, remove (+) bolt and it's out if need be. Wrap the (+) cable end in something non conductive, stash it and shut door.

the series Diode idea has a major flaw:


the 2nd battery would never get a full charge owing to the fact that diodes have a defined Voltage Drop across the junction.
  • Silicon ~0.7 volts
  • Germanium ~0.2 volts
I too, have a spare AGM setting in my office...
use it sporadically to power up something that needs 12 volts while I play with it inside the house. What I was gonna do with the older Odyssey, but it left here in the 1200. I still got that cart with two big group 65 Batts. Might hang an inverter on it too, have a couple that aren't in use, both were gifts in past years.

as for a dedicated box? it does not need one, just pack the Saddle bag appropriately to keep it from bouncing around..... or, add a strap to keep it in place. Yeah, would not consider it with a wet cell but these AGMs are great for that. I wouldn't have put a regular one in the lower trunk.
Frogg Toggs and the bike covers should do the job adequately, that is how I hold the spare 1 gallon Jerry can for my "Get the hell out of Dodge" when I run out of gasoline. ( done that already once for myself) Buddy once bought a new 2gal. gas jug as he was gonna pull a trailer out west, so he thought for sure it was OK. Packed it in his trailer with thier clothes, etc. First night at motel he found out. No leaks he said, but every piece of clothing smelled of gasoline, so it had to leak fumes at the least. They had to launder the whole lot of them clothes. He gave the jug away, after dumping the gas into his tank. Was same trip a bison charged him.

Ooops, I see that supper is ready.


Later …… Les
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have written before about how well the Odyssey PC680 I had in the Trike from 2004 until this past Spring (2019) had performed for me, and it's still alive and well in the 1200 with new owner. I now have two in my '97 Trike.

But after I told a buddy how well it was doing "then", he bought one for his '96 GL1500 in April 2016. I know he didn't get to ride much last summer and he's been tied up with other stuff this summer. His PC680 died from lack of use. He tried charging it, and for two days I have tried with both my smart charger on AGM setting and a regular charger. Cannot get it over 15% charge. I've tried it at 2 amps, 6 amps, and 10 amps. My smart charger starts out like it's gonna charge, then goes into a desulfation mode, then real soon, it just aborts. I even suspected the charger, but it works perfectly on known good batteries, like a 2001 Motorcraft Gp 65 that was OEM in our '01 Merc that is in my battery cart for portable power (I swapped it out in 2006 thinking it was near end of life … before we took a 21 day & 8,000 mile road trip west, it's had an easy life since then in the cart while the Merc has had a couple others) and my generator's new AGM. I think that his PC680 is defective or past "end of life", and out of warranty. Maybe he let it go too long dead?

But in other news, my two battery mod is working well. I have several maintainers that just put out 1.5 or 2.0 amps to charge, then float at what ever they float at. I checked them today, one seems to "float" at 12.8 vDC while a B&D one "floats" out at 13.11 vDC. (another "floats" at just barely over 12 vDC). I think that in view of my buddy's dead, deceased, kaput, & smootered PC680, I likely will use one of these maintainers this winter. Either one (12.8 or 13.11) will work to keep the batteries from suffering significant discharge due to memory requirements of the Trike, I think they'll be fine with both even, but I could alternate easily.

But what is this talk of Winter? It was 94 here today. Lots of great weather will soon be here. :smile2:
the battery chemistry is not what is at fault.

it is the total lack of proper battery maintenance during the idle periods.
I think you're right. This one is just too far gone. Oh well, I tried.
IMO,
to not dedicate a Battery Tender to a battery that sees infrequent use, is heresy. Might near.
:wink2:
 

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the battery chemistry is not what is at fault.

it is the total lack of proper battery maintenance during the idle periods.

IMO,
to not dedicate a Battery Tender to a battery that sees infrequent use, is heresy.
This is assuming that battery is installed into a vehicle/RV and there is a slight amount of "monitoring current" going on with the electrical system.
It don't take much, just 5 mA will kill an AGM battery over 5 to 6 months.

My Pontiac Vibe has a monitor, it blinks every 3 seconds.
My 2001 Suburban has two monitors on it, the ECU and the RV Trailer Brake system..... ( I let it set for 3 months last winter and the battery dropped to 12.3 Volts ) started it up and drove it to town, all is well now.

If the batteries are disconnected, and brought inside to relatively warm temps, they can go a year or two and still perform adequately at startup w/o being charged.... far better though, to put a Battery Tender on any battery that has not been charged in months, even if it is inside.

I have an AGM in my office that has not been used in 3 years, I check it once in a while, and it stays at about 12.6 Volts. I think I will get the BT out of the garage and put it on that battery tonight.
 

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This reminds me, that my Auxiliary Generator has not been started since last winter, it has an AGM battery that is totally disconnected when the Switch Key is OFF.

it stays at 12.6ish year around, and the motor cranks over and starts in less than 2 revolutions...

This is because the gas tank valve is turned to OFF, and the engine allowed to run at full speed until it reaches fuel exhaustion.

I have to fuel prime it to start it up, it has a pressure bulb for that purpose. It works every time w/o fail. Putting that on tomorrows list of things to do.

oh my, the RV AuxGen has not been started since last summer when we used it coming home from Colorado...... it ran until it ran out of gas, keeping the doggies cool while we toured a museum in Pueblo. that is going to take getting some E0 gasoline for that one, both of them actually.
 

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Have followed this thread and its very interesting. I have recently acquired a 2012 VStrom DL1000, much lighter than my GWs, and while perusing the various forums came across a thread where the fellow installed an external alternator on his '05 1000. Excellent write up and fit. He sold the unit separately when he sold the bike and the fellow that bought it has a side car on his VStrom and uses the external alternator to power all the extras that are installed because of the side car. The OEM charging system operates the bike. Good concept. Here's the thread web site: https://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,15655.0.html

People who own motorcycles are very innovative. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Have followed this thread and its very interesting. I have recently acquired a 2012 VStrom DL1000, much lighter than my GWs, and while perusing the various forums came across a thread where the fellow installed an external alternator on his '05 1000. Excellent write up and fit. He sold the unit separately when he sold the bike and the fellow that bought it has a side car on his VStrom and uses the external alternator to power all the extras that are installed because of the side car. The OEM charging system operates the bike. Good concept. Here's the thread web site: https://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,15655.0.html

People who own motorcycles are very innovative. Cheers
He sure was!


I know a guy who once had a sidecar equipped with his home made AC that used a cooler with alcohol and dry ice to circulate air through via fan for his wife. I forget how he made that. It got hot in that bubble top sidecar I guess. An extra battery was also used, but I think he just charged it up often before rides and she had a switch to turn it on / off at her will.
 

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Yesterday I removed the seat and put a two conductor power lead (like a Battery Tender uses, it has a cap and long protected leg is +) with a regular cig lighter like power outlet (also has a rubber cap) in the right side pocket beside the co-rider, I wired the pair together and ran a 12 gauge red to a fuse holder at the main (bike's OEM location) battery with a 20 amp fuse in it, and a 12 gauge black wire to a ground stud I had installed years ago on the right side of frame (to rear of battery). I dropped wires out of pocket beside the rear volume control wires. 6 or 10 amps is likeliest the most current it'll see in use with my charger. Even less with maintainer use. Now, there are outlets in left front pocket, top trunk, lower rear trunk, and this one. There was one in the right front pocket, but I never used it so I used it today with the new setup. Now when I need to hook up, no stooping to get in lower trunk … no unplugging XM to use one in top trunk, and that one in left front pocket is switched so it was out as well.

Using a B&D maintainer and a digital solid state volt meter at same time, the maintainer first went to 14.4 at the highest, spent some time bouncing around in the 13s and near 14 before charge light stopped flashing when it went into standby holding steady 12.7vDC now with steady light. I then "turned on" the battery in the trunk and after some charging again, it settled down to the same 12.7 vDC. Like I said, these two batteries are very near the same age, etc.


My buddy who's AGM battery is DEAD now (post 12 above) is closing on a newly purchased house that needs a bit of work, meaning he won't be riding much if at all. I told him to wait to buy a new battery until when he's near to riding. That we would use my pump to pump the old gas out, put in a gallon of fresh real gasoline, put this battery in & then jump it to start so he can move it to this "new to him" home's garage (5-7 miles). Then, we'll pull the vacuum line to petcock, run carbs dry, then pump off any fuel in the tank.

This reminds me, that my Auxiliary Generator has not been started since last winter, it has an AGM battery that is totally disconnected when the Switch Key is OFF.

it stays at 12.6ish year around, and the motor cranks over and starts in less than 2 revolutions...

This is because the gas tank valve is turned to OFF, and the engine allowed to run at full speed until it reaches fuel exhaustion.

I have to fuel prime it to start it up, it has a pressure bulb for that purpose. It works every time w/o fail. Putting that on tomorrows list of things to do.

oh my, the RV AuxGen has not been started since last summer when we used it coming home from Colorado...... it ran until it ran out of gas, keeping the doggies cool while we toured a museum in Pueblo. that is going to take getting some E0 gasoline for that one, both of them actually.
Yeah, easy to let it go too long. My older / largest generator was bought new in 2006. It too has a fuel valve I added to use to shut fuel off to let run carb dry, then I drain the tank. Ran it a lot in 2012 when a derecho killed power for a week Has a AGM battery laying on it's side, it's battery finally give up last year. It takes a AGM same exact size as the PC680, but I had already bought a replacement last year so I didn't put the extra PC680 in it instead. It was only like $50-$60. Generator has a plug in maintainer that plugs into generator's control panel.
 

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I have a little 1000 watt generator in the garage gifted to me a few years ago as it wouldn't run. Fuel in it was nasty and you can imagine what the carb looked like inside.

I got it running good after poking a guitar string thru the clog in the main jet.

We don't see power outages very often here in the city so I never know how long the gen will sit unused. So always stored dry, very easy to drain fuel from tank and carb after use. And being small there's no battery, just a recoil starter.

I have just a city lot to mow, a full tank of fuel on the lawnmower will last half the season, so I don't usually keep cans of fuel around. If I need fuel for the generator or lawnmower, the bikes are happy to provide with a siphon pump. :ROFL:

1000 watts isn't much, I can run a TV, a computer, a few lights and the coffee maker on it (very important), the lights flicker a little when the coffee maker cycles. That's about max load. I suppose if needed in an extended outage I could plug the fridge and deep freeze in for a while if I cut off the TV, computer and coffee maker. Worst came to worst in the winter time I could probably even patch it in to run the furnace a while.

So it will run a lot of things, just not all at once... :tuttut:
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Yesterday I removed the seat and put a two conductor power lead (like a Battery Tender uses, ...
Been doing some other work down in the shop, go out to trike room & check on trike batteries today. Been over 4 months. Both batteries switches been in "on" condition, B&D battery tender on, disconnect, turn both switches off to isolate each, batteries both test 13.2 or + VDC, with both switches "on", reads a little over 13.2 VDC when I test, so looking good so far. Tender kicks it up to 14.2-14.4 (floats?) when it kicks in.

Never could rescue that kilt AGM battery that I had from my buddy's bike, he kilt it good I guess. Went to play cards other night, too it back, it just will not charge past about 12.2 VDC. Buddy has been working long days on that house he closed on, found foundation issues from years of bad drains from roof, rotted floor under carpets at wall edges where a dog had been peeing we think, so he's been replacing flooring and sheetrock and some wallpaper. I think some ceiling work, mudding too. Now, he's hoping to put current home on market in Spring. He ain't even looked at his Wing in months …. good food at card game, was 12 of us, two tables, "and & foot" we played.
 
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