Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums banner

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Had a buddy try and get some minor work done on his Honda Ace and the dealer he took it to gave him the same BS about being old - over 10 years.
 

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You can add East Bay Motor Sports of Hayward, Ca to the list of dealers that won't work on a decade old bike.

Carl
 

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Goodolboy1 wrote:
Wow....
After reading some of the posts here, I'm now wondering if I made one huge mistake by purchasing this older 1984 Aspencade.
I think you might of been a bit hasty in buying such a new bike....nowthe GL1000, that's a Wing worth owning...LOL



Why would anyone take anything, not under a warrenty,to a dealership for repairs?...I must be missing something...or in the wrong pay-grade..



I wanted a HD and was saving for it (something my friends knew) when one friend with a Wing barely two years old was divorcing and needed money fast and talked me into buying his Wing cheap...I figured I'd run the wheels off of it and then go buy my chromed up Harley...

'

That was thirty years ago...



I still figure to run the wheels off of it and then go buy my chromed up Harley...



I have lived in six states since then and I never had a problem finding mechanics to work on my Wing.



I did visit a Honda dealership once several years ago....the floor-room had more space dedicated to leather and riding apparel than for motorcycles...maybe if I everneed new gloves, I'll go back...
 

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Official "Cheeky Plonker"
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+1
 

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Missourimike
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JerryH mentioned Dr.Deming, the Father of Quality Control and Continuous Improvement. I am familiar with the man, having attended some of his lectures and know the history of his work. In Japan, he is revered and each year the Best of the Best in Japanese Industry receive The Deming Award.
It was Quality and Improvement that allowed Japanese products to outpace and outsell American products, not cheap labor costs, as many thought and used as an excuse.
Thirty years ago I worked for one of the Top 10 most admired companies in America. They would not make or sell a second rate product. They, along with many other American companies turned to Dr.Deming and Japan for help in improving their processes and products. America made Junk, for the most part, back then. All our auto manufacturers were of the mindset that THEIR cars were disposable and that Americans only wanted NEW and would buy whatever they put out. I got to detesting GM cars and like a dummy, I keep buying in the hopes that some day they would improve.
Maybe, only today, American Cars are starting to catch up.
I could go on for hours on this subject, but look back and see with an unbiased mindset why Japan has prevailed.
 

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I guess they want to sell new bikes instead of maintaining the old ones. No reason to buy a new wing though since they practically last forever.
 

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My local Honda Dealers services and works on mine without any questions asked. I have a 95 and have had several things doen to it over the past few years.
 

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Many interesting opinions on this thread. Mostly just that, opinions.

Many dealers adopted the 10 year rule 20 or 25 years ago when something over 10 years old was really a quivering pile of parts.

If you could have seen what most 10 or 15 year old bikes looked like back in 1983, you'd understand.

Now though, the bikes (mostly Hondas) are designed to last longer with less service. And come apart and go together easier.

I was lucky many, many years ago to work in a Hon/Suz/Kaw/Duc shop for a great Service Manager. He didn't have an iron clad rule about not working on old bikes. We worked on almost anything.

But, when he went out to look at someones pride and joy, the estimate would be a little higher for an old, rusty looking bike that wintered outside, chained to a tree. If the bike staggered under 200 lbs of add-ons that had to be removed or worked around for normal service, well...you know. :wink:

The worst was someone coming in with a 20 year old wing with 30 additional lights on it, and all the extra wiring was one color. Whatever was on sale at the local NAPA when a roll of wire was needed. And crappy crimps on the terminals that are stacked 20 deep on a longer battery hot post bolt!

It would have been easier to have a 10 year rule, but several of us had older bikes and didn't mind working on the older ones. He let the nicer examples through the door, even though it took a little longer to do individual assessments.

This was back in Ohio in an earlier life, and Ohio has a law that says the job quoted can't go over 10% of the quote without an O.K. from the owner. We would stop and get an O.K. on anything that would push the total up at all. Little stuff just got fixed and glossed over. We were flat rate techs with no time for frivolous phone calls. It had o be important for us to stop and call.

Well, my Ibuprofen and Aleve cocktail has kicked in. I gotta go fix the wifey's washing machine so I can put the new fuel pump in my '95 GL1500. Then I can get it off the rack and get ready to change out an engine on one of my Ducatis. Gonna be a busy week.:wink:
 

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Quality control is great, continued improvement is not always such a good thing. It makes thing obsolete to fast. I own a 2002 Kawasaki Vulcan 750 that was first designed in 1985. My '02 is EXACTLY like the '85 model, other than paint colors. This model was made through '06, with NO changes other than paint. Parts that fit an '06 also fit an '85. I have owned two of these bikes, both bought new. A '93 and an '02. The '93 was sold with over 80,000 miles on it when I decided I wanted something else. The something else didn't work out, and I went back and bought another new Vulcan 750 without even considering anything else. It now has over 77,000 miles on it. I intend to wear this one out, if I last long enough.

Continuous improvement to me is just another term for planned obsolescence. It means the constant need to redesign something that was working fine to begin, and results in totally out of control parts proliferation.

I can understand why a dealer will not work on a really old bike, they go by the book on labor, and when they tear into an old bike, there is no telling what they might find. It might cost way more to fix than their original estimate, and possibly more than the bike is worth. The customer might just walk away leaving them with an old bike that is worthless to them.

BUT. Parts are another matter. I think parts should be available for a VERY long time. Lack of parts is why I do not own a vintage Japanese bike (other than my '85 Goldwing, which most parts are no longer available for new) It's why I am concerned about investing even $5000-$7000 in a 1500. No matter how nice it looks and runs, it is still going to need parts, and I am afraid those parts are not going to be there. One neat thing about owning an '85 Vulcan 750 is that ALL the parts are still available, and will be until at least 2016, 10 years after the '06 model was sold.


I know this is a sore subject here, but there is a certain American motorcycle brand that you can get parts for no matter how old it is. That makes it possible to keep it going forever. True, these parts are not made by the manufacturer, they are made and sold by the aftermarket. But, the manufacturers continued use of nearly the same technology for decades is what makes it profitable for the aftermarket to continue producing these parts. There is a market for them. There is almost no aftermarket for parts for most older Japanese bikes, partly because they are constantly changing things. In most cases things that worked fine to begin with, and didn't need changing. Many people continue to own and ride the older Goldwings and find ways to keep them going, because they like them. I'm one of those. And I would still buy parts for them from Honda if they still made them.
 

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Reading this thread makes me want to start a shop that markets toward the bike owners with older bikes. Wings are not super hard to work on IMO...
 

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My ole 88 Gl1500

HI Folks,

I recently bought my 88 Gl1500 from a Honda Dealer, No one told me that they would not work on it either , but after they prepped the bike for me I had to find my Front Intercom connector that they left under the dash.

After seeing this and reading this thread I will never take my bike to a dealer like the one that sold me this one.
there is a place up here in NH called Venco Wings they specialize in Wings I will only take my bike in to them If I cant do the work myself due to lack of tools or knowledge, But I can see this site has al the knowledge I will need.
So far I have put 600 miles on my wing it had 66k on it when I got it no problems so far But I am going to change the timing belts to be safe.

This site Rocks! I am extremely happy to have found this site!

Now all I have to do is worry about parts if I ever need them!
 

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Vintage Rider
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HI Folks,

I recently bought my 88 Gl1500 from a Honda Dealer, No one told me that they would not work on it either , but after they prepped the bike for me I had to find my Front Intercom connector that they left under the dash.

After seeing this and reading this thread I will never take my bike to a dealer like the one that sold me this one.
there is a place up here in NH called Venco Wings they specialize in Wings I will only take my bike in to them If I cant do the work myself due to lack of tools or knowledge, But I can see this site has al the knowledge I will need.
So far I have put 600 miles on my wing it had 66k on it when I got it no problems so far But I am going to change the timing belts to be safe.

This site Rocks! I am extremely happy to have found this site!

Now all I have to do is worry about parts if I ever need them!
Welcome. I'm surprised they sold you an '88. Dealers around here will not sell anything over 10 years old. They wind up going to an auction along with bikes from many other dealers. A dealer will take one as a trade in, but give you almost nothing for it, because they can't resell it. They won't work on bikes over 10 years old, and most will not sell you parts for a bike more than 10 years old. Fortunately online places like bikebandit.com and cheapcycleparts.com will. I get all my oem parts from them.

We have a local independent Goldwing shop here, but they only deal with 1500s and 1800s. I also found that they use common Belray waterproof grease on drive splines instead of moly paste.
 

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Some dealers mechanics don't have the parts to deal with an older bike. Plus a lot more problematic.. other things can break.
It's better anyway to take your bike to a specialized shop. They'll take better care of it that way
 

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All of the US auto manufacturers maintain OEM parts supply for cars and trucks for a period of 10 years. After that, one would mostly get aftermarket parts installed. There's not enough money to be made for as aftermarket manufacturer to make serviceable parts for Gold Wings. There is a lot more to it than just furnishing parts for older vehicles. There has to be storage space, a distribution system and employees to handle parts. Last but not least, the cost of manufacturing parts.
 

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I worked as a service manager for two dealerships that carried Honda. One, I could take in whatever I wanted, the other, we did not have time for the "old" stuff.

One of the problems with the older bikes is that it takes longer to find parts, in many cases, and that is not billable time.

Another issue is that if the shop has more than enough business supporting the new bike repairs, there is no point in taking on more work that generally requires more "time" and time is money in that industry. And there were times that adding another technician was financially impossible. Shops are expensive to run, most people have little to no business sense and it's not even worth discussing in most cases.

My other objection to the older bikes was simple - A customer would bring in a older bike wanting something fixed, and there would be a handful other items that needed to be addressed. Even with a signed wavier, it's just not my style to touch a motorcycle and then let it leave knowing it needs something else done. Just because the owner did not want to pay for it still may not protect me in a court of law.

In both cases, I knew and recommended local repair people who specialized in the repair of the older bikes.

But, in either case, if a bike came in that I was personally very familiar with, and the owner gave the right vibes, I'd fix it.
 

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Part of the equation is planned obsolescence. If the current Gold Wings were to run longer without repairs and replacement parts there would not be as many newer generation GL's sold. Even if parts were made available to keep the older Gold Wings on the road, most of us would want to pay the outrageous cost of the parts verses just buying a newer Gold Wing.
 

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I worked as a service manager for two dealerships that carried Honda. One, I could take in whatever I wanted, the other, we did not have time for the "old" stuff.

One of the problems with the older bikes is that it takes longer to find parts, in many cases, and that is not billable time.

Another issue is that if the shop has more than enough business supporting the new bike repairs, there is no point in taking on more work that generally requires more "time" and time is money in that industry. And there were times that adding another technician was financially impossible. Shops are expensive to run, most people have little to no business sense and it's not even worth discussing in most cases.

My other objection to the older bikes was simple - A customer would bring in a older bike wanting something fixed, and there would be a handful other items that needed to be addressed. Even with a signed wavier, it's just not my style to touch a motorcycle and then let it leave knowing it needs something else done. Just because the owner did not want to pay for it still may not protect me in a court of law.

In both cases, I knew and recommended local repair people who specialized in the repair of the older bikes.

But, in either case, if a bike came in that I was personally very familiar with, and the owner gave the right vibes, I'd fix it.
I get it. From a shop owners view, I get it. Always find a shop that has a working owner. Find someone that works in his business and takes care of his customers needs. Find someone that started a shop to service customers, satisfy and deliver quality work. Find someone that has to repair it himself if he screws the job up. Find someone that appreciates their customers patronage. Find someone that understands money doesn't grow on trees, or reproduce itself while sitting in your pocket. I see the above mentality displayed by transmission shop franchises that purchase their business as an investment. They do not have a full picture of the situation, and often fail. I never put money first and foremost in any repair. That same customer may decide to upgrade their machine and just never come back. Parts are being obsoleted much faster than 10 years these days. Manufacturers want to sell new bikes.
 

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I used to own a lawn tractor repair shop,in Michigan.
Most of my customers were people that had,and LOVED older machines,but couldn't get the dealers to repair them.
I did...for 15 years,and,I made many friends,and restored a LOT of older machines.
They were happy,and I was happy,and I would still be doing it,if the economy hadn't tanked so bad,that I lost my lease !
Why would I do it? LOVE OF THE MACHINE,AND PRIDE IN MY WORK !
Those are values that,today's techs don't understand ! They only want the $$$ !
 

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Roll Tide
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Ive found that alot in my area.You cant even get a answer to a problem.The local Harley shop owner is great.He told me from the start on my 83 interstate one carb at a time on the cleaning.
 
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