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Yep, must cut back into the wires both directions till you get good copper. Problem is in that severe a meltdown, it probably indicates the terminals touched and I would suspect its damaged the stator. They usually dont flame up just from a bad terminal unless two or more touch together. You can check the stator windings for an open circuit (as if burned open) but cannot check a normal winding with ohmmeter. There are tests in mechanics manuals but they are inaccurate. Only accurate way to check is with oscilloscope, many auto garages have them.
If you reconnect them, it doesnt matter which one goes where, just so each one from stator goes to each one to harness. Also pull the plug on the voltage regulator and have a look, its under the gas tank lid, under the tray to the left.
This is a chronic problem on GL1100/1200. Check out my home page for more info.
http://gl1200harness.tripod.com
Yep, must cut back into the wires both directions till you get good copper. Problem is in that severe a meltdown, it probably indicates the terminals touched and I would suspect its damaged the stator. They usually dont flame up just from a bad terminal unless two or more touch together. You can check the stator windings for an open circuit (as if burned open) but cannot check a normal winding with ohmmeter. There are tests in mechanics manuals but they are inaccurate. Only accurate way to check is with oscilloscope, many auto garages have them.
If you reconnect them, it doesnt matter which one goes where, just so each one from stator goes to each one to harness. Also pull the plug on the voltage regulator and have a look, its under the gas tank lid, under the tray to the left.
This is a chronic problem on GL1100/1200. Check out my home page for more info.
http://gl1200harness.tripod.com
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66udive wrote:
66udive wrote:
I soldered mine and taped them up well, better than using a connector block. I was actually lucky, mine melted together a few years ago but there was no stator damage. When I started the engine I used a meter to check and a good healthy 14 volts was going into the battery and no problems since then.Phew!
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Something else you will want to check 66udive, is the starter relay/ main fuse assembly, found on the right side of the battery under a rubber hood. Check for over heating and melting plastic, a common problem on these bikes. Good Luck, and welcome aboard.
Something else you will want to check 66udive, is the starter relay/ main fuse assembly, found on the right side of the battery under a rubber hood. Check for over heating and melting plastic, a common problem on these bikes. Good Luck, and welcome aboard.
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BRowan wrote:
BRowan wrote:
I'va managed to catch a few of these in the nick of time as well. Don't just assume the stator is roasted when the wires melt. Quite often it's a corroded connector block that causes the meltdown and if you catch the meltdown quickly enough you have a good chance of getting away lightly. Just check it out with a meter afterwards.
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I'll bet an inductance meter (L/C meter) could be used to check windings... I'm sure a lot easier than using an oscilloscope. One lead to one yellow wire, the other to ground - then check the other two yellow wires the same way. If they're pretty close to the samevalue for all three, then your stator windings are probably good. Might have to rotate the engine by hand while doing this (for an average) to negate the effect of the rotor.
Just theory, but I bet it works.
I'll bet an inductance meter (L/C meter) could be used to check windings... I'm sure a lot easier than using an oscilloscope. One lead to one yellow wire, the other to ground - then check the other two yellow wires the same way. If they're pretty close to the samevalue for all three, then your stator windings are probably good. Might have to rotate the engine by hand while doing this (for an average) to negate the effect of the rotor.
Just theory, but I bet it works.
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There are several ways to check the stator windings. Personally I'd use an ohm meter and an AC voltmeter. All three windings are grounded on one end so they allshould have the same resistance to ground, and the resistance between any two should have twice the resistance of any one lead to ground. If any leads are open to ground then the thing is fried for sure. You can fire up the bike and measure the output voltage of each winding also. This is going to be AC voltage at this point since it's ahead of the rectifier. Don't worry about exactly what the voltage is, mainly the idea is to see if all three windings are putting out the same voltage. It is important to do it while the bike is idling since changes in RPM will change the output voltages. If one of the coils has some windings shorted together it might not show up clearly with an ohmmeter but the AC voltage check should discern the difference.
A meter capable of reading inductance (Henrys) would also be another way to do it. An Oscilloscope would do it too, but mostof us don't have these on hand. You can get a cheap digital voltmeter at Harbor Freight for less than $5.00 which will do nicely for both measurements.
:waving::waving:
There are several ways to check the stator windings. Personally I'd use an ohm meter and an AC voltmeter. All three windings are grounded on one end so they allshould have the same resistance to ground, and the resistance between any two should have twice the resistance of any one lead to ground. If any leads are open to ground then the thing is fried for sure. You can fire up the bike and measure the output voltage of each winding also. This is going to be AC voltage at this point since it's ahead of the rectifier. Don't worry about exactly what the voltage is, mainly the idea is to see if all three windings are putting out the same voltage. It is important to do it while the bike is idling since changes in RPM will change the output voltages. If one of the coils has some windings shorted together it might not show up clearly with an ohmmeter but the AC voltage check should discern the difference.
A meter capable of reading inductance (Henrys) would also be another way to do it. An Oscilloscope would do it too, but mostof us don't have these on hand. You can get a cheap digital voltmeter at Harbor Freight for less than $5.00 which will do nicely for both measurements.
:waving::waving:
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Yes. That is the only way for the average rider or mechanic to test a stator, and an inductance meter can be had for $ 50 at MCM Electronics last I checked. Phase inductance is about 1.5 mH (milli - henry) but a partially shorted phase may not read enough off to tell on a cheap inductance meter.
There is no check with a $5.00 voltmeter that is of any use except to read a stator winding that is completely broken open or to read DC voltage. Reading a stator with an ohmmeter is useless unless its a laboratory instrument except to check for complete open - circuit. No measurement of stator AC voltage is accurate unless done with an Oscilloscope.
Stator phase (one winding) resistance is about 0.15 ohm, too low for any common ohm-meter to read. I use a precision LCR bridge but those are $300 USD.
A cheap digital voltmeter cannot read stator voltage, the frequency of the stator signal is too high (and varies), and DVMs are designed to read a symmetrical sine wave, the stator voltage is not a symmetrical sine wave. Readings are not accurate.
O-scope will read 35-45 V AC peak to peak on a good phase.
If you guys want, i can post an electronic circuit to allow you to read peak phase voltage without an oscilloscope.
Yes. That is the only way for the average rider or mechanic to test a stator, and an inductance meter can be had for $ 50 at MCM Electronics last I checked. Phase inductance is about 1.5 mH (milli - henry) but a partially shorted phase may not read enough off to tell on a cheap inductance meter.
There is no check with a $5.00 voltmeter that is of any use except to read a stator winding that is completely broken open or to read DC voltage. Reading a stator with an ohmmeter is useless unless its a laboratory instrument except to check for complete open - circuit. No measurement of stator AC voltage is accurate unless done with an Oscilloscope.
Stator phase (one winding) resistance is about 0.15 ohm, too low for any common ohm-meter to read. I use a precision LCR bridge but those are $300 USD.
A cheap digital voltmeter cannot read stator voltage, the frequency of the stator signal is too high (and varies), and DVMs are designed to read a symmetrical sine wave, the stator voltage is not a symmetrical sine wave. Readings are not accurate.
O-scope will read 35-45 V AC peak to peak on a good phase.
If you guys want, i can post an electronic circuit to allow you to read peak phase voltage without an oscilloscope.
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Before you reconnect the yellow wires you should perform this test first so you can verify the stator's proper operation.
Typically, as Exavid states, if you check the AC voltage from the three yellow wires, one at a time, (with the engine running) from yellow wire to ground and you find AC voltage readings to be equal or close on each one, the stator will normally be fine. (If you still don't have output, the regulator is most likely the problem.)
If the AC voltage readings from the yellow wires to ground , individually,vary greatly or show that one or more wires do not show a reading at all then the stator needs replacing.
As Jason states, it is often the connector that is the cause of the stator failing due to corrosion in the electrical connectors. That is why many Wing owners automatically remove the connector and solder the yellow wires together as a preventative maintenance plan.
Vic
Before you reconnect the yellow wires you should perform this test first so you can verify the stator's proper operation.
Typically, as Exavid states, if you check the AC voltage from the three yellow wires, one at a time, (with the engine running) from yellow wire to ground and you find AC voltage readings to be equal or close on each one, the stator will normally be fine. (If you still don't have output, the regulator is most likely the problem.)
If the AC voltage readings from the yellow wires to ground , individually,vary greatly or show that one or more wires do not show a reading at all then the stator needs replacing.
As Jason states, it is often the connector that is the cause of the stator failing due to corrosion in the electrical connectors. That is why many Wing owners automatically remove the connector and solder the yellow wires together as a preventative maintenance plan.
Vic
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Ì have an oscilloscope ( unused for years ) so I will check it out with that. I will also replace the harness as per your diagram , fortunatly I have all the gear as thats the business im in.
Many Thanks, ( I did not know that the three stator coils were in parallel as I dont have a wiring diagram )
Regards,
Terry.
Ì have an oscilloscope ( unused for years ) so I will check it out with that. I will also replace the harness as per your diagram , fortunatly I have all the gear as thats the business im in.
Many Thanks, ( I did not know that the three stator coils were in parallel as I dont have a wiring diagram )
Regards,
Terry.
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They aren't in a true parallel, but sorta. Think of a triangle and the three lines are the stator coils, and the 3 points of the triangle are your yellow wires. Each yellow wire is connected to 2 coils.
Raymond
They aren't in a true parallel, but sorta. Think of a triangle and the three lines are the stator coils, and the 3 points of the triangle are your yellow wires. Each yellow wire is connected to 2 coils.
Raymond
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Silicon Sam wrote:
Silicon Sam wrote:
Close, but no cigar. What you are describing is a DELTA connection, the stator is setup as a WYE. In the WYE one end of each winding is connected to a neutral or in this case a ground. In a DELTA none of the windings is grounded. The three windings generate AC voltages 120 degrees out of phase with each other and are fed to the rectifier to be converted to DC and then to the regulator to limit the output voltage to the nominal 14V.
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66udive wrote:
Be sure not to ground the scope while the probe ground is on the stator phase or the probe cable will go up in smoke and may take the scope with it. Youll see a modified sine wave. Have to measure between pairs of yellow or itll read through the regulator.
MUST be checked under load, Ive seen windings all but burned in two that still gave readings.
66udive wrote:
Be sure not to ground the scope while the probe ground is on the stator phase or the probe cable will go up in smoke and may take the scope with it. Youll see a modified sine wave. Have to measure between pairs of yellow or itll read through the regulator.
MUST be checked under load, Ive seen windings all but burned in two that still gave readings.
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Dave Campbell wrote:
Dave Campbell wrote:
A cheap digital voltmeter read a voltage, it won't be accurately calibrated due to waveshape and frequency, but it WILL be off the same amount on all three windings which gives a valid comparative reading. The exact voltage is not all that necessary to ascertain, any significant difference between the output of the three coils is all you need from a mechaic's viewpoint.
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