[Aesop]

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I finally got the "Grey Goblin" back together today. Well, less the plastics, they won't be done until friday.
I went to fire it up for the first time and it's not happening. With the key on, switch in the "run" position, and a brand new battery (now dead), it will pop when the button is pushed. It sounds like it's not popping on all cylinders, and dies instantly after releasing the start button.
When I bought the bike it ran on 3 cylinders for the 15 feet it took to get it into the garage. On closer inspection that night I found one of the coil wires was pulled out of the coil. Despite removing the engine for the required stator change, I didn't mess with any of the ignition parts. I left the carbs and everything above them on the bike.
Theoretically, it should have fired right up.
I did have to "relocate" all the wiring in the front weight box. All I did though was run the required plugs and connections behind the new headlight assembly and alonside the headstock. It seemed pretty straightforward. Disconnect, reroute, reconnect. I'm, afraid something in there controls, or connects to the starting circut and I messed it up.
Any clues on where to go from here?

 

[wingdawg101]

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I'm curious, does it fire up with the start button held in and just pop or does it just turn over and pop?:baffled:

 

[Aesop]

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It just turns over and pops. It never got going fast enough to be considered "running".

 

[twisty]

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Aesop wrote:

I finally got the "Grey Goblin" back together today. Well, less the plastics, they won't be done until friday.
I went to fire it up for the first time and it's not happening. With the key on, switch in the "run" position, and a brand new battery (now dead), it will pop when the button is pushed. It sounds like it's not popping on all cylinders, and dies instantly after releasing the start button.
When I bought the bike it ran on 3 cylinders for the 15 feet it took to get it into the garage. On closer inspection that night I found one of the coil wires was pulled out of the coil. Despite removing the engine for the required stator change, I didn't mess with any of the ignition parts. I left the carbs and everything above them on the bike.
Theoretically, it should have fired right up.
I did have to "relocate" all the wiring in the front weight box. All I did though was run the required plugs and connections behind the new headlight assembly and alonside the headstock. It seemed pretty straightforward. Disconnect, reroute, reconnect. I'm, afraid something in there controls, or connects to the starting circut and I messed it up.
Any clues on where to go from here?

Aesop, it would help if we knew what you are working on here?

In any case-- If you had to the timing belt (or belts) off to get the engine out MAKE DARN SURE those belt(s) are back on correctly. Besides not starting or running it could cause damage.

Other than that make sure the plug wires are on correctly & that you have good fuel flow to the carbs (check the drain plugs). Then make sure you have GOOD power to the coils.

Twisty

 

[Aesop]

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'83 GL100. (Duh, sorry)
After reading about others bad luck with the belts I decided to leave them alone for now. I have them and the covers off, but after installing the healight/turn signals, I figured I better see if it runs before I put it together completely. I hate having to backtrack.
Fuel is good. New battery. All connections are tight. I didnt remove anything coil related, and it ran before.
I'm going out to check the plugs now. If NAPA gave my the wrong ones they could have bottomed out and closed the gap.

 

[wingdawg101]

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One of these Gurus will be along soon to help you!

In the meantime check your "fuses" and charge on battery, some will have enough amps to turn it over but not start it? Spray some "Contact cleaner" into the start awitch and work it back and forth, that's the basics to start with!

Probably going to be a wire or coil problem?:baffled:

 

[Aesop]

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Yeah, plugs are good, gapped right, etc.
Fuel is aplenty, and now on my shed floor.
The battery was brand new and is charging now. I'ts too dead to even try arcing the plugs out tonight. And I better wat until the fuel fumes evaporate.

 

[exavid]

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Double check your belt timing. Pull the plugs for a look. Are they wet with fuel? If totally dry check out the carbs to see if fuel is getting through. It probably wouldn't hurt to do a quick compression check the make sure the valves are working properly. While the plugs are out, to see if there is sufficient spark, connect the plugsand lay themon theheads for a groundand crank to see if there's a nice solid spark at each one.

It sounds awful basicbut it's a matter of compression, fuel and ignition, it those are there at the right time it has to run.

 

[Aesop]

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I'm going to have to wait until tommorrow to mess with it more, the battery is dead, and so am I! LOL.
I'll start by getting the plugs to arc, and then trying to wet them with fuel. I'll let ya'll know how it turns out.


Oh, (might help) when I was trying to start it, it would only "pop" on full choke. I was afraid I flooded it, and turned the choke off and it wouldn't pop at all. After engaging the choke again it started popping again.

 

[exavid]

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Gonna bet you money that it's a fuel feed problem, Twisty has already mentioned it, sure sounds like go juice isn't getting to where it can do some good.

 

[Aesop]

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I'm going to have to revive this thread.
A gummed up starter was the battery draining culprit. After cleaning it up and re-greasing it she is spinning like a top.
Then I realized the carbs weren't all getting fuel. as exavid figured. Now after 2 weeks of removing, cleaning, adjusting, and of course, polishing, they are back in and seem to be fine. But it still won't start.
The left side cylinders are trying, but the right side aren't even showing up. It seems to me the timing might be off a hair but I'm not sure.
Both pully's "top" marks reach the mark on the casing at the same time, but at this point, it seems like the only possible explanation for this behaviour.
When the right does fire (rarely) it backfires through the air plenum. Momma always said if it backfires through the pipes it's a fuel problem, and if it backfires through the breather, it's a timing problem.
My question is: can it still be off time if both marks reach the case marks at the same time? And if so, do I just guess and move the right belt a notch left or right?

 

[twisty]

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Aesop wrote:

I'm going to have to revive this thread.
A gummed up starter was the battery draining culprit. After cleaning it up and re-greasing it she is spinning like a top.
Then I realized the carbs weren't all getting fuel. as exavid figured. Now after 2 weeks of removing, cleaning, adjusting, and of course, polishing, they are back in and seem to be fine. But it still won't start.
The left side cylinders are trying, but the right side aren't even showing up. It seems to me the timing might be off a hair but I'm not sure.
Both pully's "top" marks reach the mark on the casing at the same time, but at this point, it seems like the only possible explanation for this behaviour.
When the right does fire (rarely) it backfires through the air plenum. Momma always said if it backfires through the pipes it's a fuel problem, and if it backfires through the breather, it's a timing problem.
My question is: can it still be off time if both marks reach the case marks at the same time? And if so, do I just guess and move the right belt a notch left or right?

Aesop, your mommas saying wasn't formulated forthe Wing's"lost spark"type ign system.. Basically if it is popping in the mufflers it is firing on an open exhaust valve & it it is popping back through the carbs it is firing on an open intake valve.. Now on the Wing that uses the lost spark type ign system you get a spark every time a piston comes to TDC. What that means isyou get a spark on the exhaust stroke as well as the compression stroke. Under normal conditions a spark on the exhaust stroke is not a problem as there is no fuel present or no oxygen available evenif any fuel is present. Now that all goes away during cranking with a flooded engine, or a misfire during cranking, or hang fires, or fuel in the exhaust system as that does allow oxygen to be present on the exhaust stroke.

My question is: can it still be off time if both marks reach the case marks at the same time? And if so, do I just guess and move the right belt a notch left or right?

Sure it can still be out of time if both cam marksreach the case marks at the same time. Cam timing is relative to the crankshaft (actually piston) position. Both cams can be lined up to EACH OTHER & CASE MARKS but then both cams could stillbe a tooth or more off to the crankshaft. Make sure the crankshaft is in the PROPER lined up position as the cam marks line up.

With all that cranking & popping you have you mighttry a NEW set of spark plugs before anything else as once those plugs fuel foul they can cause all kinds of misfires & no start problems.

Twisty

 

[Aesop]

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OK, lemme re-phrase the question---------->can the left side be correct, as in relation to the crank, (as it is acting normal) and the right side be off a tooth or even several off, even though the marks arrive at the same time? I've read every post about timing belts here and many have mentioned that it is not unusual for one pully to be a tooth or two off and still run right. In my case I might actually have to put it a tooth or two off intentionally.
If I'm firing on an open intake valve I must be firing too soon?

The plugs are new and gapped correctly. I have removed the several times to clean them up.

 

[twisty]

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Aesop wrote:

OK, lemme re-phrase the question---------->can the left side be correct, as in relation to the crank, (as it is acting normal) and the right side be off a tooth or even several off, even though the marks arrive at the same time? I've read every post about timing belts here and many have mentioned that it is not unusual for one pully to be a tooth or two off and still run right. In my case I might actually have to put it a tooth or two off intentionally.
If I'm firing on an open intake valve I must be firing too soon?

The plugs are new and gapped correctly. I have removed the several times to clean them up.

Aesop, if I understand you correctly-- IF, the L/H side is correct & the mark on the cam gear is lined up with the head mark-- IF, the R/H sidecam gear mark is also lined up (at least close) it is also timed correctly.

If I'm firing on an open intake valve I must be firing too soon?

Not necessarily so.. You could be firing at the correct time but have the cam out of time allowing the intakevalve to be open at firing time,, or you could have an intake valve that isn't closing due to something caught between the valve & seat,, or some other reason you have an open intake valve.

Are you sure you have the spark plug wires on the correct plugs (cylinders) as crossed plug wires at the plugs or coils will allow firing on an open valve?

Twisty

 

[Aesop]

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???

The valves are closing and look good. I checked them when I had the carbs out and the "runners" off.

 

[twisty]

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Aesop, I can't remember what youare working on here?

Most of the 4 cylinder Wings I am familiar with have cylinders 1 & 3 on one (R/H)side & 2 & 4 on the other (L/H) side.

Twisty

 

[Aesop]

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It's an '83 1100A.

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=3259&forum_id=1&jump_to=32922#p32922

I've posted this pic before and "they" said it was correct.

BTW, how do they number the cylinders?

 

[twisty]

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Aesop wrote:

It's an '83 1100A.

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=3259&forum_id=1&jump_to=32922#p32922

I've posted this pic before and "they" said it was correct.

BTW, how do they number the cylinders?

Aesop, 1100 eh?..

The cylinders are numbered 1 & 3 R/H (brake lever) side & 2 & 4 L/H (shifter) side.

I'm not a good 1100 person as I haven't ever owned one but by looking at an old manual I have your plug wiring does look correct for the 1100.

Twisty

 

[litfuse]

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Aesop go to your spark units and check them.Now what you are looking for is two metal cases about the size of a cigarette lighter on the left hand side of the frame slightly to the rear ,above your coils.

They are cdi[capacitor discharge ignition] electronic parts that are connected to the coils.Use a 10mm socket to remove them from their bracket.Flip them over and check the epoxy on the back side.If a melted mess that comes off on your finger then you have managed to fry them.

If that is the problem then go to e-bay and start hunting for some.Sad news is that Honda does not make any more and I know of no new sources .

Keep it vertical.Fred

 

[Aesop]

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Thanks for the idea Litfuse, I walked out and checked em, they look good.