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Discussion Starter #21
:surprise:


I agree with the statement. I don't have to prove it to you in order to agree with the statement, I'm not trying to sway you. It is enough for me that I agree because of personal experience.
You don't have to believe me or agree with me. You don't have to change anything you do.

:smile2:
Well said!

It sounds to me like Carl wants me to prove, scientifically, that distracting other drivers from their driving is not putting them at risk? Really?

What started this was a 2018 or newer Goldwing that came up behind me with a flashing headlight. The modulator he had installed caused the leds to flow back and forth from one side to the other. It reminded me of the Camaro in Knight Rider or the Cylon robots in the Battlestar Galactica series.

To my mind it was not only distracting, but trashed the appearance of an otherwise beautiful bike.

Oops, now I’ve done it! Now Carl is going to want me to prove scientifically that he trashed the appearance of the bike.

Oh well.
 

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Well said!

It sounds to me like Carl wants me to prove, scientifically, that distracting other drivers from their driving is not putting them at risk? Really?

What started this was a 2018 or newer Goldwing that came up behind me with a flashing headlight. The modulator he had installed caused the leds to flow back and forth from one side to the other. It reminded me of the Camaro in Knight Rider or the Cylon robots in the Battlestar Galactica series.

To my mind it was not only distracting, but trashed the appearance of an otherwise beautiful bike.

Oops, now I’ve done it! Now Carl is going to want me to prove scientifically that he trashed the appearance of the bike.

Oh well.
I do not know who owned that other bike but I know a legitimate headlight modulator does not perform in that manner. Your gripe is with an illegal action, not a legal modulator.
 

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Well said!

It sounds to me like Carl wants me to prove, scientifically, that distracting other drivers from their driving is not putting them at risk? Really?

What started this was a 2018 or newer Goldwing that came up behind me with a flashing headlight. The modulator he had installed caused the leds to flow back and forth from one side to the other. It reminded me of the Camaro in Knight Rider or the Cylon robots in the Battlestar Galactica series.

To my mind it was not only distracting, but trashed the appearance of an otherwise beautiful bike.

Oops, now I’ve done it! Now Carl is going to want me to prove scientifically that he trashed the appearance of the bike.

Oh well.

If they where flashing side to side, then it was not a legal modulator unit.

Seeing that you don't the rules, you just group everybody into one category.



If you make a statement & can't back it up, then you are nothing more then a troll.



Go back and re-read my posts, I NEVER said anything about the appearance of the bike.
 

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… etc …

What started this was a 2018 or newer Goldwing that came up behind me with a flashing headlight. The modulator he had installed caused the leds to flow back and forth from one side to the other. It reminded me of the Camaro in Knight Rider or the Cylon robots in the Battlestar Galactica series.

To my mind it was not only distracting, … etc …
Distracting is exactly why that operation you describe is illegal … and a good stroke.

Emergency vehicles being operated on highways have lights and sirene to enable their operator to redirect attention momentarily, to "distract" others from other mundane tasks. If every class of vehicle is to be allowed to steadily distract at driver's will in whatever fashion desired for their own purpose, reasonable or not, soon there would be no reason to equip emergency vehicles thusly.

A huge concession was made when headlight modulators were first approved, but the approval process included concessions the cyclist agree to, like using approved modulators (no alternating or flashing, certain frequency of modulations, etc). While a legal modulator is legal, I find it is still distracting in my mirror.

Like lane splitting … though legal in many places … it has it's own set of dangers.


Go back and re-read my posts, I NEVER said anything about the appearance of the bike.

:rofl: … I think he was speculating that you likely would … not that you did.
 

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I don't know how things work in Wisconsin Rapids, But when I drove truck OTR, All the emergency vehicles that I seen always had their red - red/ blue lights on when their headlights was flashing. So under that deduction, When someone sees a modulating headlights w/o red/blue lights at the same time, it is a bike. It is only detracting if & when you stare at it- sort of like ones cell phone.


This & other threads on this subject prove that it gets drivers attention & that is what modulating headlights was designed to do.


Bottom line is, As long as the D.O.T says it is a legal device, It is my right so I'm going to use it. No amount of whining & crying from anybody will change that.
 

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Regulations

Yes! Modulators are legal:
USA - Department of Transportation:
FMVSS 108 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) (49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4) allows motorcycle headlight modulation systems in all 50 states provided they comply with the standards set forth in Section S7.9.4.
Title 49 USC 30103(b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108. No State or Local ordinance shall usurp the authority and enforcement of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards

CANADA - Canada Transport:
FMVSS 108 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) (49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4) allows motorcycle headlight modulation systems in all Provinces provided they comply with the standards set forth in Section S7.9.4.
Kisan Headlight modulators are manufactured and tested to be in full compliance with US Department of Transportation (DOT) Standard 108 and Transport Canada Technical Standard 108.
Title 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations (49 CFR Section 571.108)

Paragraph S7.9.4 “Motorcycle Headlamp Modulation System”




This Federal law supersedes all state laws and makes

motorcycle headlight modulators legal in all 50 states.

FMVSS 108 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards)

(49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4) allows motorcycle

headlight modulation systems all 50 states provided they

comply with the standards set forth in this section. Title

49 USC 30103 (b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state

from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108.



S7.9.4 Motorcycle headlamp modulation system



S7.9.4.1 A headlamp on a motorcycle may be wired to modulate either the upper beam or the lower



beam from its maximum intensity to a lesser intensity provided that:

(a) The rate of modulation shall be 240 plus-or-minus 40 cycles per minute.

(b) The headlamp shall be operated at maximum power for 50 to 70 percent of each cycle.

(c) The lowest intensity at any test point shall not be less than 17 percent of the maximum

intensity measured at the same point.

(d) The modulator switch shall be wired in the power lead of the beam filament being modulated

and not in the ground side of the circuit.

(e) Means shall be provided so that both the lower beam and upper beam remain operable in the

event of a modulator failure.

(f) The system shall include a sensor mounted with the axis of its sensing element perpendicular

to a horizontal plane. Headlamp modulation shall cease whenever the level of light emitted by

a tungsten filament light operating at 3000 degrees Kelvin is either less than 270 lux (25 footcandles)

of direct light for upward pointing sensors or less than 60 lux (5.6 foot-candles) of

reflected light for downward pointing sensors. This light is measured by a silicon cell type light

meter that is located at the sensor and pointing in the same direction as the sensor. A Kodak

Gray Card (Kodak R-27) is placed at ground level to simulate the road surface in testing

downward pointing sensors.

(g) When tested in accordance with the test profile shown in Figure 9, the voltage drop across the

modulator when the lamp is on at all test conditions for 12 volt systems and 6 volt systems

shall not be greater than .45 volt. The modulator shall meet all of the provisions of the

standard after completion of the test profile shown in Figure 9.

(h) Means shall be provided so that both the lower and upper beam function at design voltage

when the headlamp control switch is in either the lower or upper beam position when the

modulator is off.


S7.9.4.2



(a) Each motorcycle headlamp modulator not intended as original equipment, or its container,

shall be labeled with the maximum wattage, and the minimum wattage appropriate for its use.

Additionally, each such modulator shall comply with S7.9.4.1 (a) through (g) when

connected to a headlamp of the maximum rated power and a headlamp of the minimum rated

power, and shall provide means so that the modulated beam functions at design voltage when

the modulator is off.


Canadian Code of Regulations Governing Motorcycle

Headlight Modulators in Canada



TECHNICAL STANDARDS DOCUMENT NO. 108, Revision 3



Lamps, Reflective Devices and Associated Equipment



Effective Date: May 19, 2001

Mandatory Compliance Date: November 19, 2001


S7.9.4 Motorcycle headlamp modulation system



S7.9.4.1 A headlamp on a motorcycle may



be wired to modulate either the upper beam

or the lower beam from its maximum

intensity to a lesser intensity, provided that:

(a) The rate of modulation shall be

240 ± 40 cycles per minute.

(b) The headlamp shall be operated

at maximum power for 50 to 70

percent of each cycle.

(c) The lowest intensity at any test

point shall be not less than 17

percent of the maximum intensity

measured at the same point.

(d) The modulator switch shall be

wired in the power lead of the beam

filament being modulated and not in

the ground side of the circuit.

(e) Means shall be provided so that

both the lower beam and upper

beam remain operable in the event of

a modulator failure.

(f) The system shall include a sensor

mounted with the axis of its sensing

element perpendicular to a horizontal

plane. Headlamp modulation shall

cease whenever the level of light

emitted by a tungsten filament light

operating at 3000 degrees Kelvin is

either less than 270 lux (25 footcandles)

of direct light for upward

pointing sensors or less than 60 lux

(5.6 foot-candles) of reflected light for

downward pointing sensors. The light

is measured by a silicon cell type

light meter that is located at the

sensor and pointing in the same

direction as the sensor. A Kodak

Gray Card (Kodak R-27) is placed at

ground level to simulate the road

surface in testing downward pointing

sensors.

(g) When tested in accordance with

the test profile shown in Figure 9, the

voltage drop across the modulator

when the lamp is on at all test

conditions for 12 volt systems and

6 volt systems shall not be greater

than 0.45 volt. The modulator shall

meet all the provisions of this TSD

after completion of the test profile

shown in Figure 9.

(h) Means shall be provided so that

both the lower and upper beam

function at design voltage when the

headlamp control switch is in either

the lower or upper beam position

when the modulator is off.


For more information, contact:

Motor Vehicle Standards and

Research Branch

Road Safety and Motor Vehicle

Regulation Directorate

TRANSPORT CANADA

Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N5


 

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No one was questioning the legality of modulators were they?

Don't recall the legality being the issue, but I did Bookmark that link for easy access to it later.

Modulators seem to strike up a lot of opinions:
Everyone has an opinion, some agree, some don't.

For myself, take it or leave it, have had Modulators, and currently don't as they are not compatible with HID headlights. ( kills the ballasts )
 

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That’s another reason why I switched over to LED’s It was time to upgrade headlights anyway. However I did have them with my incandescent headlights and they worked very well . I’ve been running with the modulator headlights since 2004 , saves my tail every time I go out , here in New York drivers are pretty stupid and brain dead! When I see motorcyclist whether it be around town or up on the highway I wished they had modulator headlights so that as a cage I know that they’re coming It just makes them more conspicuous. I am constantly watching out for motorcycles , but then you get One or two that lane split in New York or just come up behind you relatively quickly OK where did he come from . Like some people say loud pipes save lives well headlight modulators saves lives !
 

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Quite a few years ago when I was commuting back-and-forth from Queens to Connecticut, going over the Throgs neck bridge when they had tollbooth’s I was stopped by a highway po and he asked me why I was flashing my lights at him, I proceeded to tell him I was not flashing my lights at him I have a headlight modulator. He said well that’s illegal I said no it’s not it’s a federal law that states I am allowed to have a headlight modulator on my bike. I proceeded to show him the The law that states it is legal and he really didn’t want to hear it. So I asked to see his CO when the CO arrived he looked at the statute and said I can go . I always carry a copy of the statute in my bike . Federal law trumps local and state laws. I was ready to go to court and to school the highway PO !
 

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I know we’re not talking about the legality of the subject ! If I can be seen better I am going to use whatever I can within my legal rights . Now I know you’ll say well cars don’t see cars and they get into accidents and then you’ll say well cars don’t see motorcycles , my point is if you have it use it if not that’s your prerogative so be it .
 

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I have used them to great advantage. I will never ride with out them. To the gentleman who stated that he didn't like them and he never had trouble seeing bikes please remember your a rider and that's why you see bikes. The people who don't ride don't look.
 

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Nodnocdar
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I bought my first modulator in 1985 after a women crossed the double line and hit me head on. The modulators are the first item I install on a new bike and I've had 4 since the accident. The last bike I bought was a Wing and it took a few weeks to find a matching modulator. During the weeks before the modulator I had numerous occasions where drivers pulled out in front of me and I could see that they were looking both ways. After the modulator there was an obvious change because I could see the driver look and then stare, probably because of the flashing. Maybe those drivers were anti modulator but it resulted in them stopping and staring instead of pulling out. I can understand that the oscillation of light intensity could be annoying and I regret that. However, I hope you can tolerate my need to be seen and be recognized as a vehicle, hopefully avoiding another accident.
 

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Having ran the modulators on 2 1800s, I do know they work. I have the ability to run with them off or on, and there have been times when running with them off, that cages just seem to ignore you and cross into your lane or cut you off. Not so with the modulator on, though. They see you. Now, if riding in a group, as DaveO430 and others that have ridden with me knows, I usually remember to turn them off to keep from annoying the other riders in front of me. It has never bothered me to see a bike with a modulator, but then again I know the difference between a modulating headlight and a alternating headlight on a emergency vehicle. Now, if I could only get the deer to move to the side of the road when they see me coming.
Gene:grin3:
 

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This debate is kind of funny: modulators are designed to make the bike more noticeable, and then some people complain because bikes with modulators are annoyingly noticeable... >:)
you took the words out of my mouth. :grin3:
 

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And if they lead to one accident?:wink2:

In the history of emergency vehicles using flashing headlights, How many accidents involving emergency vehicles have been directly caused by those headlights?:?
 
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