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This has been discussed lots here. Lucian. Do a search on starter motor and you will get lots of info.

 

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lucian wrote:

Hi Everyone !From time to time when I try to start my GL 1200 Interstate,1984,the starter turns fast but does not turn the engine.I put in first gear,move the biketo turn the fly wheel a bit,try again,same happens.I wait a few minutes ( acting like I wait for someone.....),try again and it starts.It does the same with cold or warm engine.Is the starter or solenoid ?

Lucian, probably neither.. Your stater doesn't have a solenoid to pull in a bendix like in like some cars & trucks.. All it has is a relay & that only supply's basic power to the starter when you push the start button (obviously it is getting power from the relay or the starter wouldn't spin up)..

My guess is it's the starter clutch assembly that is freewheeling.

**Sorry for the delay in the remainder of this, my neighbor's son backed his 4 horse trailer (with horses inside)into his pond & I had to dig my big diesel tractor out as the little tractor wouldn't pull that rig out, well then he took me & my wife out to dinner.**

With that starter turning (spinning up) OK when you try to start it that pretty well says all the wire connections are good & the starter is getting good power at starting.

Those old Wings use a roller clutch to connect the starter to the generator drive chain during starting & in lot of cases that roller clutch gets a little sticky & won't engage it's outer ring when the starter is spun up (this really sounds like your problem).. That roller clutch's operation can beeffected by too thick of an engine oil (like 20W50) but in cases where too thick oil is the culprit the starter will act up cold but start good when hot as the oil is much thinner hot. The worst case & somewhat common occurrence on a high mile older 1200 Wingsare the rollers in the roller clutch becoming worn flat on the sides so they won't initially extend & pick upthe outer race when the starter is spun up.

IF, your problem is just sticky, or varnished up, or rusted,clutch rollers from old oil or the bike sitting for a long storage period then you might try riding the bike for a good hour at high speed,, then dropping the engine oil while still hot (careful of that very hot exhaust pipe near the drain plug),, then letting the crankcase drain overnight.. Once it is drained maybe install a good quality diesel rated engine oil like Shell Rotellta T (15W40).. Most of the better diesel rated engine oils have a very good additive package & a good varnish & gum remover. Use the bike for a while with that diesel rated oil & see if that will free up (or de-rust) the clutch rollers. You could try an oil additive like "Sea Foam" or "Marvel Mystery Oil" but neither probably have the cleaning ability of a good (premium quality)diesel rated engine oil.

In the mean time you might try a few things to get the starter to engage better--

_try starting the bike while still on the side stand as that in some cases will allow the rollers to extend easier & catch the outer ring.

_try placing the bike in a higher gear then with the clutch engaged bumping the bike backwards a little bit before starting (that in some cases allows the rollers to catch the outer race in a different spot)

_Try placing a battery charger on the battery during stating (that can allow the starter to spin up faster allowing the clutch rollers to ride out faster & farther & catch the outer ring.

Worst case will be if your roller clutch rollers have flat spots worn on their sides as that won't allow them to spin & ride up the apply ramps, unlike a sprague type clutch that uses flat sided or figure 8 shaped engagementpins a roller clutch needs nice round rollers to operate correctly. If your engagement rollers are worn the engine will have to come out for repair.. Good news is: most problems are just gum & varnish on in the clutch..

Twisty

 

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as mentioned... lots of threads about this... the starter clutch is free-wheeling... try running some marvel mystery oil (not MOM-milk of magnesia) and changing out the oil. it may take a few oil changes to get better. my '78 does this when it sits a bit

 

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 You most probably have gunge in your Starter gears. BTDT.. LOL.. the Cure is MMO .. drain a quart, add  a quart of MMO.. ride around for only  300 miles or so.. and change oil,and filter... and see SilverDave /forums/images/emoticons/emoticonsxtra/cooldj.gif

 

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Goop in the starter clutch can make problems with engaging, so can a weak starter that doesn't have enough inital torque to engage the clutch. It's a sprag clutch that engages by causing some rollers to bind two parts together and spin the engine over through a chain drive. If there's gump in the clutch or the starter can't slap the rollers hard enough to lock up it will just spin. A flush might help. MMO won't hurt anything and might do the job.Check all the wiring from the battery to the starter for corrosion or looseness. Wouldn't hurt to take them apart and clean them up good. You could also check the voltage drop across the start relay it should be well under a volt when the starter is operating. You might also try jumping from the battery directly to the starter with a heavy cable. MAKE SURE THE BIKE IS IN NEUTRAL AND THE KILL SWITCH IS OFF. If it engages then you know it's something in the wiring, if it spins, you could then try a flush and repeat the test. If it still spins without engaging it probably will require taking the starter out and checking it over.

 

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Twisty,I called the relay thesolenoid.I wished that was the problem.Iserviced the bike two weeks back.It was doeing that before and after service.The oil used is 20/50w.I do not know what kind of oil I should try.MOM(?) What oil is it?

 

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M.M.O.= Marvel Mystery Oil, lots of guys here use it for everything from carb-cleaner to engine oil additive.(cleaner). You can find it in auto parts/supply stores here in the states. Usual advice is to drain off a quart of motor oil, and add a qrt. of MMO, and ride for a couple of hundred miles. Then do a regular oil & filter change. Sort of like an engine flush to get the gunk out.... :gunhead:

Good luck, don't know what happened to Twisty. Not like him to leave anybody hanging... :baffled:

 

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Thank you very much Shooter.We have here on the market few engne flush oils.I will try it.The bike was standing for 5 years in the states before I bought it through ebay in Nov.last year.I replaced all fluids but is true,I did not flush the engine.I rode the bike for 6000 Miles,when started to have problems with the starter I serviced it (plugs,oil,fuel and oil filters) but again I did not flush engine.This morning I cleaned the terminals on the relay and put some grease(I have done it before,when I got the bike),I started the bikesix times;three times out of six it started O.K.,three times the starter turned but not the engine.I noticed a strange noise when starter stops turning,likea click ( goes in the right place/position).Then it starts well.

Thank you again and keep well

 

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lucian wrote:

Twisty,I called the relay thesolenoid.I wished that was the problem.Iserviced the bike two weeks back.It was doeing that before and after service.The oil used is 20/50w.I do not know what kind of oil I should try.MOM(?) What oil is it?

Lucian, your problem isn't the relay if the starter motors (spins up) when the button is pushed.

If your problem were just a cold problem then that 20W50 oil could be the cause. In some cases heavy base engine oil will cause a problem like yours on cold start. Seeing as your problem is both hot & cold it is probably more rust or varnish related (see the remainder in my above post).. You could try some MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) but that probably doesn't contain as much anti rustorvarnish remover as a good quality modern diesel rated 15W40 engine oil.

In some cases (long shot here) a low, weak, or sulfated battery can cause a low initial starter spin up speed & not allow a sluggish starterroller clutch to engage. (try placing a battery charger on the battery while stating to see if that helps, if so, have your battery load tested).

Twisty

 

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Hi Twisty,

The book tells me to use 20/50 oil,I will change it to 15/40.Yes,we have Rotella.

Becouse you mentioned and I think about it,when I start the bike on the side stand,it never did this!It starts O.K.every time.The only reason I keep it on the center stand is that if not used long timewhen starts it smokes a bit from the left side pipe.

The bike had 29000 Miles when I bought it,now it has 35000,so I hope I do not have to open the engine !!!

I will try some good flush oil and see how it goes.

Thank you very much to you and all other members of the forum.

Best regards from Africa (very nice country to ride bikes all year round,but not to have to need parts for GoldWings.....)

 

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I realize it doesn't have a "solenoid" so why do they list a "solenoild switch" for those years in parts? Is it a relay or something that they just call a "solenoid switch " !?:baffled:

 

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Strictly speaking/forums/images/emoticons/wink.gif.. a Relay is an electrical Switch, and a solenoid is the coil that causes the relay to open / close/forums/images/emoticons/cool.gif... ... so its sorta like "AC Current "  I think... relays  have solenoids, and switches are sometimes relays...  a solenoid switch is a partial misnomer , as is a solenoid relay ... its ok to say  a "relay's solenoid",  and  an "electrical  switch's  relay".. but not vice versa.... but...... its possible the guys who make up microfiches,and parts lists for honda, or any machine manufacturer ........maybe, just maybe  do not have an electrical background..... I have seen bolts  called screws, and flat washers called "O-Rings"/forums/images/emoticons/emoticonsxtra/gunhead.gif... so just enjoy ... the best way.. IMHO... is when leaning over the parts counter,at Honda, or Chevy...  is to order a solenoid switch... and when he has found it... lol........ correct him,and the microfiche... lol..."Thats actually a Switched relay solenoid, you know "   with an evil grin... SilverDave/forums/images/emoticons/emoticonsxtra/cooldj.gif

 

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Thanks Dave!

Now you really confused me! LOL !!!:baffled::goofygrin::clapper:

 

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wingdawg101 wrote:

I realize it doesn't have a "solenoid" so why do they list a "solenoild switch" for those years in parts? Is it a relay or something that they just call a "solenoid switch " !?:baffled:

wingdawg101, basically the word solenoid or relay are pretty generic. It's a lot like calling a motor an engine or calling an engine a motor. Most times people know what is being talked about from the context it is used in.

Now in the automotive engineering world (that is where most basic automotive terms originate) there is a distinct difference between a relay & a solenoid. They can over lap though.

Basically a solenoid has a movable core in the winding center & a relay has a solid (non movable) metal core that the winding is wound around & just moves an arm or contact by magnetism.

Twisty

 

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That's the way i've always viewed it, thanks!

Of coarse when you ask a question here you have to factor in which perspective it's coming from, a "Irish", "Scottish", "English", "Aussie"," New Zealandish" "Canadianish" or "Americanish", oh yea now "Thialandish", Wow, that's alot to think about!:baffled::madeyes:

And there's "Brojeesish" and "SilverFoxish" that's another story for a later time,lol!:banana:

 

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Calling the starter relay a solenoid is about the same as calling the final drive a differential. Doesn't make much difference most will know what you're talking about.