[pdbro]

any idea why hott went that route (2 into 1 scenario)?

i hear your arguments but the reports are these engines are humming and there are some good vids

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

any idea why hott went that route (2 into 1 scenario)?

i hear your arguments but the reports are these engines are humming and there are some good vids

I've an idea, yes.
Maybe you should ask him.

The only argument that I've put forward is that this thread should remain on topic without the jetting experiments.
The conversion is fine as-is without alteration.

If another is pleased with how his turned out, then this thread is serving a good purpose.
My opinions are irrelevant to this extent.

Additions to the conversion should be fully understood.

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[CaptainMidnight85]

Example the conversion in the pictures below.
I ran this set-up daily for over a year (with a standard air filter).
I used my original manifold designed for the DCD that was off-set to the right of centerline.
The manifold was not port tuned.
It flows extremely well without port tuning.

...my plug color was even between all cylinders.

Does this point something out?
Plug readings w/pics are posted in one of these threads around here from back when I was running it.

Manifold construction is important. Following westgl's build in this thread, using the materials he used, should provide for decent charge distribution and even plug colors.
If plug color is not consistent, then something has been deviated from given direction and affected tracts need to be looked at individually then compared to the others for correlation.
This usually means something was assembled slightly different and must be corrected for uniformity.

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[CaptainMidnight85]

Clearly, my adapter offsets the carburetor from center for mounting and, consequently, increases plenum volume at the same time.
Increased plenum volume (a detriment to the conversion) is a necessity in my choice of using a single-barrel carburetor on a manifold designed for a two-barrel carburetor. The benefit of its use tolerated the cost of less off-idle throttle response.

It is my experience.

I've the ability to measure off-idle throttle response in milliseconds with my manifold using a variety of carburetors.

I've detailed records.

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[pdbro]

I've an idea, yes.
Maybe you should ask him.

most open requests for info that i've seen turn into hush hush pm me stuff

i lose interest when benefits are not clearly communicated in the open, for a start

all i know is that some folks think use of the 2 into 1 adapter is a 'game changer', for others it is the opposite, or at least no point going there,

this is all i've seen about the hott setup
http://www.classicgoldwings.com/for...s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107173&sid=2c2a6556058b835559b0e9fe2924f2fd#p107173

You are right joe. The adapter or 'choke' does exactly what you said. It hustles the flow at a higher and tighter rate, but is not restricting.
Tighter i.e. NOT expanding. The mixture does not have a chance to expand until the 'Y' breakout where it quickly is entering the WARM runners.
I had to learn early on to keep the 'Y' short and not to try and make long flowing tubes, as this caused freezing and hesitation.
Yes it is a monster carb, but easy to dial in if you choose. I like the 'kick in'. It also works with ICT's, 32/32 & Holleys.

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

most open requests for info that i've seen turn into hush hush pm me stuff

i lose interest when benefits are not clearly communicated in the open, for a start

all i know is that some folks think use of the 2 into 1 adapter is a 'game changer', for others it is the opposite, or at least no point going there,

this is all i've seen about the hott setup
http://www.classicgoldwings.com/for...s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107173&sid=2c2a6556058b835559b0e9fe2924f2fd#p107173

I'm not clear on what you are wanting from me.

Are you saying that hott wants you to PM him?

Do you think it (this 2-to-1 adapter) is a "game changer" for some reason?
I don't understand what you are pressing me for on it, as I've clearly stated my view towards using any adapter on this plenum.

 

[slabghost]

Clearly, my adapter offsets the carburetor from center for mounting and, consequently, increases plenum volume at the same time.
Increased plenum volume (a detriment to the conversion) is a necessity in my choice of using a single-barrel carburetor on a manifold designed for a two-barrel carburetor. The benefit of its use tolerated the cost of less off-idle throttle response.

It is my experience.

I've the ability to measure off-idle throttle response in milliseconds with my manifold using a variety of carburetors.

I've detailed records.



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Can you please explain how offsetting the carb increases the volume of the plenum? Did it somehow stretch the plenum like a balloon?

Just what sort of device do you use to measure off idle response in milliseconds? Under load conditions or in neutral? Why would it even matter? You can only twist a throttle so fast.

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

Can you please explain how offsetting the carb increases the volume of the plenum? Did it somehow stretch the plenum like a balloon?

Just what sort of device do you use to measure off idle response in milliseconds? Under load conditions or in neutral? Why would it even matter? You can only twist a throttle so fast.

I can explain ...that my adapter uses a tube to mate a carburetor base flange and plate that, when bolted to the plenum, increase its volume. Is this what you are wanting to know?

The device I primarily use is a computer. Actually, more than one.
Along with that are other various tools and supplies.
I run my tests under "no-load" conditions specific to engine RPM. I've no reason to conduct tests under simulated load.

The ability to see very minute changes while developing my tuned port manifold give me the opportunity for optimization.

In every test that I've performed associative of the plenum to the manifold, I've found that increasing its volume decreases its off-idle throttle response.


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[slabghost]

So why offset your adapter to feed two runners more than the other two? Centering the feed will equalize the charge and pressure available to all cylinders.
Have you tried decreasing volume by shortening runners or reducing the diameter of them? What is your goal of fuel delivery to use the second pulse? Third or fourth pulse?
If increasing the volume of the plenum is detrimental then why do so many notice increased performance adding them?

 

[slabghost]

In reading back a bit I see you recommend heating the plenum. The stock carbs are unheated yet they perform well. Do you see an increase in power using vaporized fuel over atomized fuel?

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

So why offset your adapter to feed two runners more than the other two?

You assume this is happening when it is not.

Centering the feed will equalize the charge and pressure available to all cylinders.

Not true. We are using a open plenum.

Have you tried decreasing volume by shortening runners or reducing the diameter of them?

The manifold runners are independent of plenum volume.
The plenums volume cannot be adjusted by the runners.

What is your goal of fuel delivery to use the second pulse? Third or fourth pulse?

Pertinent to this conversion I see no reason to talk of induction waves due to the variables of each owners construction practices, methods and supplies used.
There are many who are pursuing this conversion using material other than what is suggested in this thread. Using the material suggested in this thread does not lend itself well to tuning.

If asking about my manifold, yes, I use induction wave tuning using both positive and negative pressure waves before and after intake valve events.
The specific set of pressure waves (or their harmonics) that I use in port tuning my manifolds are privileged to me and those that have one. I've no benefit in divulging it to the public.
I

If increasing the volume of the plenum is detrimental then why do so many notice increased performance adding them?

I've explained this earlier.
Two things.
First: increased plenum volume
Second: distance from the plenum floor

"increased performance" is subjective at best.
If what you mean is plug coloring becomes more consistent between all cylinders, then centering of the carburetor must be why - this is false. Dan, through good effort and intention on his part, is seeing a deceptive result because the underlying problem still exists; his delivery tracts from the plenum outlets to the intake valves are unequal. His long-term plug readings will show this.

This is primarily why I port-tune my individual runners.



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[slabghost]

You assume this is happening when it is not.


Not true. We are using a open plenum.


The manifold runners are independent of plenum volume.
The plenums volume cannot be adjusted by the runners.



Pertinent to this conversion I see no reason to talk of induction waves due to the variables of each owners construction practices, methods and supplies used.
There are many who are pursuing this conversion using material other than what is suggested in this thread. Using the material suggested in this thread does not lend itself well to tuning.

If asking about my manifold, yes, I use induction wave tuning using both positive and negative pressure waves before and after intake valve events.
The specific set of pressure waves (or their harmonics) that I use in port tuning my manifolds are privileged to me and those that have one. I've no benefit in divulging it to the public.
I


I've explained this earlier.
Two things.
First: increased plenum volume
Second: distance from the plenum floor

"increased performance" is subjective at best.
If what you mean is plug coloring becomes more consistent between all cylinders, then centering of the carburetor must be why - this is false. Dan, through good effort and intention on his part, is seeing a deceptive result because the underlying problem still exists; his delivery tracts from the plenum outlets to the intake valves are unequal. His long-term plug readings will show this.

This is primarily why I port-tune my individual runners.



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Explain how it is possible to place the feed flow over two of four suction pumps and all four will receive equally.

So what is a "closed" plenum? Let's say all four runners are hooked to pumps of equal draw. The carb is a hose pouring water in close to two runners. Each pump has a bucket at the outlet. Do you really think the two pumps furthest away away from the flow will fill as fast as the two closest? They can't by the way.

True the plenum volume is independent of runner volume but the two combine to create the full distance and volume between the carb and intake valve. Reducing or increasing the volume of either will adjust the fuel charge and speed.

The variance of induction waves has absolutely nothing to do with the materials used whether it be metal,plastic, or rubber. It has to do with the volume of each. Tuning of which is easily accomplished by adjustment of volume. Either by changing runner length or internal diameter.
Do you not think the public might benefit from knowing this and the reasoning? The second wave is the strongest but there are drawbacks to it's use.
Increased performance is apparent if in sufficient quantity. No dyno is needed to verify.
You "port" tune the runners? How? You've said that each must be exactly the same as the others yet the proximity of the carb to each runner is irrelevant. This makes no sense at all.
So you feel Dan's plugs will color unevenly after centering the carb and yours will not after biasing the carb towards two runners? Where is the logic in that?

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

So, ...

...in your version...

...the secondary hits equally as biased?

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[CaptainMidnight85]

Actually, ...my tests were highly dependent on the consistent use of type and grade of fuel.

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[slabghost]

So, ...

...in your version...

...the secondary hits equally as biased?

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Dan's does now and the one I'm building will. Are you unable or just unwilling to answer my questions? I have the weber carb tuning manual here and " how to build horsepower volume 2" by David Vizard. Much of what you've said here and on other forums conflicts with the information in these books. Are you reading from a different library? Do you have any solid evidence that my books are in error?

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

...hmmm.
What about my conversion are your hot-rod books not telling you?

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[CaptainMidnight85]

I believe your current set of hot-rod books truly have taught you this.
But, what if there's more? ...and what will you do to find out?
...how far would you go to know?..

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[CaptainMidnight85]

Would you dig down deep enough to know what that Brosol did at -8F?
That's pretty cold out to be road testing results.
You can bet I knew what it was that I was testing.

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[slabghost]

Three posts trying to sidetrack and evade my questions? It seems apparent you either have nothing to contribute or feel there is none who understand logic. Airflow and fluid dynamics are known. I have plenty of vehicles and machines with carbs that start at -20 degrees. I do not own a Brosol at the moment but fail to see the significance of it's mention in this thread discussing the 32DFT weber. Do you think we could get back on topic please?

 

[CaptainMidnight85]

If you would like a fair criticism given to you constructively of your manifold by my self, then I would be happy to do that for you.
But have you built this conversion? Or any conversion?
If so, and you would like to compare it against my own conversion, then I'd be happy to help.
I could help you with your theories.
What I cannot help you with are the results of my testing.
Those you will have to aquire by your own means.
This is no free ride.

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